New and Confused

[lpage160]

Be forewarned that I have a lot of questions.

First of all I'm a U.S. resident that is intending on moving to Finland on a student visa to obtain a bachelors in International Business, as that's one of the few courses that's offered in english. Not a problem though as the school I'm looking at has told me that a bachelors degree in that plus Finish studies has a very broad range and can open up a ton of jobs after graduation. Does anyone have any thoughts on how true that is? I was told the economy isn't doing super hot but I plan on staying in Finland after I graduate and eventually become a permanent resident when I can. Possibly citizenship but I'm not sure how that works so we will just say permanent resident for now. Basically is that a good degree to where I can get a job there without too much of an issue?

Currently I am a freelance photographer, photo editor, and graphic designer with a 2 year degree from a U.S. university in Graphic Design so I have that to offer as well.

Another thing, the school I was talking to is Häme University of Applied Science (HAMK). Does anyone know anything about this school? Suggestions for other schools are welcomed as well. Also how are the university workloads and basic schedules?

Also cost of living: I'm doing a budget right now so I know how much I will need to have per month and how much I will need to start everything. I found a website but it's a little vague in some areas... here is the website:
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co ... ry=Finland.
What I would like to know is:

• How much is the average grocery bill?
• How much is rent deposits usually? I read their 3x rent.
• Starting up utilities.. in the U.S. it's about $50-100 to start some utilities.
• Internet, how much, how fast, ...etc
• Cell Phones! This is a big one, I plan on getting a home Skype phone to talk to family internationally but I currently have an iPhone with Verizon Wireless... do I need to get a new iPhone or can I just transfer service to a different country or get a new sim card? I tried to call them but the person I spoke to was sort of clueless.
• Lastly public transportation is a big thing as well. I will not have a car living there, at least not until I graduate or whenever is a time that seems like it would be necessary. How much does it usually cost for public transit per month on average? Also how widespread is the public transit?

If you know of something I missed please tell me! It's my biggest fear that I'll go over there and miss something and end up having to come back because I have no mulah to cover what I need to.

The last thing I want to note is that I am 27 years old and have a daughter who will be joining me over there after a year or two once I get settled. I'll be visiting back in the U.S. practically every school break and major holidays. Any tips on that situation?

I realize that I'm asking a lot but I've spent 2 weeks pouring through websites and I either cannot find a reliable source or the information is vague. Not saying I need exact figures, just general averages.

[onkko]

First of all, no one knows how economy is in few years.

1. For food only. I can do about 60e/mo and eat well enough, can do less. Its hard tho. 200-300 for single is closer to truth for normal people.
2. 0 to 3 months of rent, 3 is legal max, 1 or equivalent amount is normal on goverment/council housing.
3. There is no start up on utilities if you dont have bad credit on them and in that case its not start up but up front.
4. Depends, lets say 50e gets you fullspeed wired internet. If you go really cheap then about 10e month for limited wireless.
5. Is it locked? In finland we dont really lock phones and just use whatever provider we want and by law phone number is transferable etc. Its problem of your current provider, finnish providers are happy to give you a sim and somekind of deal, probably prepaid or "pay x amount upfront and get normal account because you are foreigner withouth credit record."
6. Depends where you are but in major areas its about 50e/month for limitless travels. Question is if public transport is good enough from your place to where you want to go, in major school cities its ok from major student housing to school.

[lpage160]

5. Is it locked? In finland we dont really lock phones and just use whatever provider we want and by law phone number is transferable etc. Its problem of your current provider, finnish providers are happy to give you a sim and somekind of deal, probably prepaid or "pay x amount upfront and get normal account because you are foreigner withouth credit record."

It's not locked, right now I'm still in the U.S so everything is the same as it's always been. Do you know if I would be able to keep my iPhone? I won't lie, I'm sort of depent on it because I have horrible directional skills. Also I am learning Finnish but I'm not awesome at it so I'll need it for that too

[rrrndrrr]

4. Depends, lets say 50e gets you fullspeed wired internet. If you go really cheap then about 10e month for limited wireless.

What do you mean by fullspeed wired internet? Usually basic internet connection is already included in the rent (10 mbit/s). Atleast in VVO buildings. Currently i use Sonera's 100mbit/s internet and Sonera TV crap is included and that costs 20€.

[Beep_Boop]

Search the form topics. Your questions have been thoroughly answered many times.

[lpage160]

Search the form topics. Your questions have been thoroughly answered many times.

I did look quite a bit. While some were answered fairly well others were either in situations that didn't apply to me so I didn't know if that made any difference, the answered were a bit to vague, or I just didn't find the post that had the question... to be honest I don't really go back past 3 pages. On forums 3 pages alone can be a ton of reading and on top of that I'm also looking up linked websites and researching things mentioned. I'm sorry if some of these are repeats as I didn't realize it.

Also one question I still have is if anyone has any experience with HAMK, that's the place I am currently talking to. Also if anyone has any suggestion as to the best college for a Bachelors in business degree that would be very helpful.

But in OP's case maybe Verizon doesn't allow usage of other Sim. Are you even sure your phone has Sim? heard in Verizon some don't. But if you buy Sim here and your phone supports it, then no problemo.

I actually just got off the phone with verizon and talked to someone who was actually knowledgeable about this and they do allow the switching of sim cards!
Can't stress enough how much of a relief that is. I honestly didn't even realize that apple phones had sim cards.


I hear a lot about student housing, would they allow for kiddos? I have a daughter who will be coming with me after a year once I get all settled. Some schools in the U.S. do that sort of thing so I figure its worth it to at least ask.

You all are being super helpful by the way! Thank you so much!

[Telecomn]

I can answer to you about HAMK. It just happens that i used to live in this town Valkeakoski, where HAMK is located, and i can tell you that is depressing. The village is small and there is nothing there. Cant speak good about their education quality. HAMK sponsors itself quite a lot, but definitely it's not the top "Universities" in Finland. You should've applied to TAMK which is in Tampere, a lot better school and they take it very seriously. I cannot tell you that they lied to you about the job opportunities, but generally its hard to find a job pretty much in all fields in Finland, unless you want to become "lämpöpumppuasentaja". I am planning moving out of here because its just nonsense to stay in Finland, where i cant find a job, or i can but definitely not the top best ones. I think your chances are way better in Sweden. But then again, that is just my opinion. For I, myself i am moving to Germany because i happen to know Russian/German so for me i got lucky getting in a bigger company. Oh and, i also studied in HAMK fo 3.5 years, this International Business program.

[Pursuivant]

3.There is no start up on utilities if you dont have bad credit on them and in that case its not start up but up front.

The thing is, you won't have a "credit record" of any kind for 2 years, and before you get a permanent residence, to get anything "on a bill" you might face coughing up a deposit. Which really is irrelevant as when you start studying you'll be given a nice student commune room with most included. Again, as a dodgy foreigner you won't get the time of day off the free market, so you need to suck it up and "establish" yourself before you start "thinking" of doing things - you need to "know" how stuff works.

The money you need to show to secure the RP (and thats every year you need to) is sort of a minimum "just above poverty" amount that pays the student commune room rent, your books, and a can of re-labeled catfood tuna and macaroni that students live on...

[Pursuivant]

The village is small and there is nothing there.

They used to have a paper factory, and you could make sweepstakes on the wind direction

HAMK sponsors itself quite a lot, but definitely it's not the top "Universities" in Finland.

Community College of Bumfuk, AZ

BTW those Nowheremäki polytechnics "International Business" degrees are something you don't mention on the CV if you want a job. Study engineering or something useful.

[lpage160]

3.There is no start up on utilities if you dont have bad credit on them and in that case its not start up but up front.

The thing is, you won't have a "credit record" of any kind for 2 years, and before you get a permanent residence, to get anything "on a bill" you might face coughing up a deposit. Which really is irrelevant as when you start studying you'll be given a nice student commune room with most included. Again, as a dodgy foreigner you won't get the time of day off the free market, so you need to suck it up and "establish" yourself before you start "thinking" of doing things - you need to "know" how stuff works.

The money you need to show to secure the RP (and thats every year you need to) is sort of a minimum "just above poverty" amount that pays the student commune room rent, your books, and a can of re-labeled catfood tuna and macaroni that students live on...

You're posts made me giggle

I went to a college for a semester in the states and yeah, that's a pretty accurate description of their eating habits here too. LOL!!
The thing is, I'm 27 years old.. not sure I would qualify for whatever the student commune room is.... plus I need my own place...

As far as the comment about the business degree thing.... I'm not sure if I could mesh Engineering with Photography and Graphic design which are my current skills from a two year degree in the U.S.
Also I'm not moving until around January so this is me finding out how stuff works... researching everything like crazy and making sure all of my finances and things are in a row...

You should've applied to TAMK which is in Tampere, a lot better school and they take it very seriously.

I actually haven't applied anywhere as of yet. I know I'm going to so I'm getting all of my information first. I don't want to jump into something that I'm going to regret later. I'll certainly look into TAMK so thank you so much for that!

As far as the job thing... I don't mind having a lower level job at first so that I can establish myself. Also it's super hard to get a job at top companies here in the U.S too, especially right out of school. They will post an Entry Level position but then they want you to have 5-10 years of experience. It makes no sense. lol!

[rrrndrrr]

Atleast in VVO buildings

Out of topic but a question to you, do you pay extra for water in VVO housing?

No, included in rent.

[GermanInHelsinki]

The Finnish economy of course depends on how quickly we will become best friends with Putin again - these stupid sanctions against Russia are a real killer for the Finnish economy.

A Bachelor is of course the lowest possible degree in Finland, and being one of the many students with an International Business degree and with mediocre Finnish skills will of course open up a ton of advertisement delivery jobs after graduating.

The 6720 Euro (12720 Euro with a child) you must show in your own bank account each year for the residence permit are of course a realistic estimate for the actual costs of living for a student in Finland.

Flights to other continents are of course not cheap, and require additional money.

Everyone of course wonders what's wrong with you that you want to move to Finland - is it your childhood dream to live in a country where the winters are so cold that even the ocean freezes?

[AldenG]

If you mean to remain and work in Finland after studies, there is possibly no other place in or near the EU where that is so difficult to do, nor any place where prospective employers so proctologically examine your formal qualifications, which weigh far more than any proven ability. With rare exceptions, only your mastery of Finnish weighs more.

If you hope to work in the US, then justifiably or not, your Finnish UAS degree will have very low credibility -- less than DeVry or ITT Tech, for instance -- and you'll constantly have to pay usually incompetent evaluation agencies to summarize the value of the credential. One such evaluator (later charged with fraud) swore an affidavit that a Finnish Master's from Tampere U plus additional teacher's certificate was the equivalent of a 2-year US Associate of Arts -- apparently unaware that Finnish high school graduates enter (full) universities already testing at a knowledge level of US college juniors.

US employers will consider an International Business degree from a UAS (if they consider it at all) to be more like what used to be granted in what were called "secretarial colleges" than any kind of almost-MBA. You should think long and hard about this plan of yours.

[lpage160]

Everyone of course wonders what's wrong with you that you want to move to Finland - is it your childhood dream to live in a country where the winters are so cold that even the ocean freezes?

Actually the reason for the desire to move is that I am very passionate about my heritage as well as nordic culture in general. On top of that the 10 or so Finns that I have met in my lifetime have all been absolutely wonderful people! Also from what I hear it's gorgeous there.

Don't take this as telling you not to come. For goodness' sake do come, my concern is that you're clearly only after residence (that's fine) but at the end of it, you will still have the same problem fulfilling the residency requirements. If you can't get work at that point or show 19k worth of annual income (yes it goes up once you are not a student), you will have to leave Finland. I would hate that you spent those years marching on the spot & your career not progressing, only to have to uproot your daughter again and move back to the States.

Well on top of the job thing I also have a family member who is going to be helping with the money situation. Actually practically supporting me basically until a year or so after graduation. So any money I make on my own is going to be going towards savings and then fun money. As far as my munchkin is concerned, I'm not bringing her up until I'm confident things will go well, this is for the reason you mentioned. She will be coming to visit me and I her.

I know it sounds like I'm in it just for the residency.. I promise I'm not, that's just a long term goal. I'm weird in the fact that I'm big on lists and goals and all that stuff. My friends say I'm overly organized sometimes. I've been wanting to go back to school for a while now and that mixed with a family member helping with some financials is sort of making this a possibility. I knew I wanted to visit but then it was suggested to me that I just go to school there and really experience things more than I would with just a two week visit. Then I started doing research and started falling in love
There is always the possibility that it will suck for whatever reason but I'm an optimist and I fully intend on trying my absolute hardest.

[lpage160]

If you mean to remain and work in Finland after studies, there is possibly no other place in or near the EU where that is so difficult to do, nor any place where prospective employers so proctologically examine your formal qualifications, which weigh far more than any proven ability. With rare exceptions, only your mastery of Finnish weighs more.

If you hope to work in the US, then justifiably or not, your Finnish UAS degree will have very low credibility -- less than DeVry or ITT Tech, for instance -- and you'll constantly have to pay usually incompetent evaluation agencies to summarize the value of the credential. One such evaluator (later charged with fraud) swore an affidavit that a Finnish Master's from Tampere U plus additional teacher's certificate was the equivalent of a 2-year US Associate of Arts -- apparently unaware that Finnish high school graduates enter (full) universities already testing at a knowledge level of US college juniors.

US employers will consider an International Business degree from a UAS (if they consider it at all) to be more like what used to be granted in what were called "secretarial colleges" than any kind of almost-MBA. You should think long and hard about this plan of yours.

I have ... and I'm not sure what it is you are saying but if all goes well I have no intention of going back to the US. There is literally no work here anyways regardless of if you have a bachelors from Ohio University. Everyone here (being the US) has a bachelors it seems like so it doesn't make it any easier regardless.

So are you telling me that regardless of what I do I will never be able to find employment? I know that everywhere it's hard to find but I refuse to believe that it's impossible anywhere... Also I already have a degree in the US that I COULD use to get a nice cushy Graphic Design job.... the thing is I don't actually want to. That's the thing with graphic design.. no one really looks at your degree, just your ability. I have a friend fresh out of high school who works with Marvel comics (Avengers, X-Men,..etc).. He never went to college he is just very good at what he does.