Citizenship by descent?

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jarodcs
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:20 am

Citizenship by descent?

Post by jarodcs » Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:29 am

Hi! So I have a kind of complicated question as to whether or not I (or at least my father) qualify for Finnish citizenship by descent.

My great-grandparents were Finnish citizens who immigrated to Canada, and when my grandmother was born in Canada in 1932, they (great-grandparents) were still Finnish citizens - they weren't naturalized Canadian until 1939. My understanding is that this makes my grandmother a Finnish citizen by descent at birth, so I'm wondering if this means my father (born in Canada in 1953) is a citizen by descent as well? Or does Finland have a limit on how many generations born abroad can gain citizen by descent (e.g. the UK only allows one generation born abroad to derive citizenship from their parents.) If Finland doesn't have a limit on how many generations citizenship can be transferred, would I be eligible? Would I be eligible for the residence permit for descendants of Finnish citizens (OLE_EN)? Or am I not eligible for any of these options?

Sorry for the amount of questions I have, and if you this seems oddly-worded or something unclear please let me know. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!



Citizenship by descent?

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betelgeuse
Posts: 4353
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Citizenship by descent?

Post by betelgeuse » Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:35 pm

jarodcs wrote:Hi! So I have a kind of complicated question as to whether or not I (or at least my father) qualify for Finnish citizenship by descent.

My great-grandparents were Finnish citizens who immigrated to Canada, and when my grandmother was born in Canada in 1932, they (great-grandparents) were still Finnish citizens - they weren't naturalized Canadian until 1939. My understanding is that this makes my grandmother a Finnish citizen by descent at birth, so I'm wondering if this means my father (born in Canada in 1953) is a citizen by descent as well?
Your grandmother was a Finnish citizen at birth. Impossible to say for your father. Was your grandmother naturalized before 1953? If so, she would not have been a Finnish citizen when your father was born.
jarodcs wrote: Or does Finland have a limit on how many generations born abroad can gain citizen by descent (e.g. the UK only allows one generation born abroad to derive citizenship from their parents.) If Finland doesn't have a limit on how many generations citizenship can be transferred, would I be eligible? Would I be eligible for the residence permit for descendants of Finnish citizens (OLE_EN)? Or am I not eligible for any of these options?
Finland does not have generation limits. However, people living abroad need to be active to keep their citizenship:

http://www.migri.fi/finnish_citizenship ... itizenship

You will get the residence permit based on your grandmother. I find it unlikely that your father would have been a Finnish citizen when you were born and agree with FloydFin.

jarodcs
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:20 am

Re: Citizenship by descent?

Post by jarodcs » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:48 pm

Thank you for the replies!!
betelgeuse wrote: Your grandmother was a Finnish citizen at birth. Impossible to say for your father. Was your grandmother naturalized before 1953? If so, she would not have been a Finnish citizen when your father was born.
My grandmother actually took no action in regards to her citizenship. She had never left Canada so she never applied for any kind of passport or visa for any nation, and her citizenship had not changed since her birth, so in 1953 she would still have been a Finnish citizen. Does this make my father a citizen (or eligible to fill out forms to gain citizenship), or do my options remain the same?

Thanks again!

betelgeuse
Posts: 4353
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Citizenship by descent?

Post by betelgeuse » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:13 am

jarodcs wrote: My grandmother actually took no action in regards to her citizenship. She had never left Canada so she never applied for any kind of passport or visa for any nation, and her citizenship had not changed since her birth, so in 1953 she would still have been a Finnish citizen. Does this make my father a citizen (or eligible to fill out forms to gain citizenship), or do my options remain the same?
Yes your father seems to have been a Finnish citizen at birth. If your father is not currently a Finnish citizen, he could then get it back by declaration. The only thing that matters for your options is whether your father was a Finnish citizen when you were born (=his current status is irrelevant for you). This fact is still not clear.

forest25
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:06 am

Re: Citizenship by descent?

Post by forest25 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:11 am

I am interested in learning whether I might be eligible for Finnish citizenship. My grandparents emigrated to the US in about 1880. They did not know each other in Finland, but met and married in Fitchburg, MA. My father was born in the US in 1905. I was born in the US in 1944. Am I eligible for citizenship given that my grandparents were Finnish citizens?

betelgeuse
Posts: 4353
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Citizenship by descent?

Post by betelgeuse » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:14 am

forest25 wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:11 am
I am interested in learning whether I might be eligible for Finnish citizenship. My grandparents emigrated to the US in about 1880. They did not know each other in Finland, but met and married in Fitchburg, MA. My father was born in the US in 1905. I was born in the US in 1944. Am I eligible for citizenship given that my grandparents were Finnish citizens?
No. You need to be under 18 to apply for citizenship via parents. If you want to know your citizenship status, you can ask Migri:

https://migri.fi/en/determination-of-citizenship

betelgeuse
Posts: 4353
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Citizenship by descent?

Post by betelgeuse » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:16 am

betelgeuse wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:14 am
No. You need to be under 18 to apply for citizenship via parents. If you want to know your citizenship status, you can ask Migri:

https://migri.fi/en/determination-of-citizenship
If you have been a Finnish citizen and lost it, then you can declare to have it back.

Chaapa
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:43 am

Re: Citizenship by descent?

Post by Chaapa » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:02 pm

forest25 wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:11 am
I am interested in learning whether I might be eligible for Finnish citizenship. My grandparents emigrated to the US in about 1880. They did not know each other in Finland, but met and married in Fitchburg, MA. My father was born in the US in 1905. I was born in the US in 1944. Am I eligible for citizenship given that my grandparents were Finnish citizens?
You will have to ask Migri directly as the law has changed over the years. I was born in the US to Finnish citizen parents in 1955. I was born a Finnish citizen and did not lose my citizenship at 22 as people do today under the current law. My children were also born in the US as Finnish citizens in the 1980s but lost their citizenships at 22 and had a much harder time claiming them than I did. I do not know about residual citizenship two generations back. You'll need to ask the experts. You can also call one of the Finnish consulates in the US. Both New York and Los Angeles were really helpful to me in clarifying my status.

CMAkerman
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:05 am

Re: Citizenship by descent?

Post by CMAkerman » Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:37 am

Hej!

I also have a similar question as jarodcs. My great-grandparents were Finnish citizens (Swede-Finn Ostrobothnians) who immigrated to America separately. Great-grandmother Wendla came in 1909, great-grandfather August came in 1913, and they married in America in 1915. My grandfather, Arthur, was born to them the same year. I can tell from the US census records that Wendla and August were alien residents in American until around 1930, when that record shows they were naturalized American citizens.

Grandpa Art lived from 1915 until 1976 and was acknowledged by a Finnish legal document as an eligible heir to a Finnish aunt's land/house. Due to immediate family obligations he did not claim the land, which would have required him to move/live in Finland. He never traveled abroad (that I can tell) so never had to declare his citizenship.

Would my grandfather, given where he was born and the year he was born, have been considered a Finnish citizen? I thought perhaps he might, given the legal document that was sent to him from Finland. Would he have had to declare acceptance of Finnish citizenship at a specific age to retain it, or is that a modern law in Finland now and would not have applied to someone born in 1915? Would I be able to find out from Finland if Grandpa Art was a citizen?

Sorry for all the questions! Any help would be wonderful, though, as it is hard getting answers from government agencies. Being Finnish means the world to me, and I hope that I qualify for OLE_EN, too.

Tack så mycket!

CM Åkerman

FinlandGirl
Posts: 1329
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Re: Citizenship by descent?

Post by FinlandGirl » Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:14 am

CMAkerman wrote:
Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:37 am
I also have a similar question as jarodcs. My great-grandparents were Finnish citizens (Swede-Finn Ostrobothnians) who immigrated to America separately. Great-grandmother Wendla came in 1909, great-grandfather August came in 1913, and they married in America in 1915. My grandfather, Arthur, was born to them the same year. I can tell from the US census records that Wendla and August were alien residents in American until around 1930, when that record shows they were naturalized American citizens.

Grandpa Art lived from 1915 until 1976 and was acknowledged by a Finnish legal document as an eligible heir to a Finnish aunt's land/house.
It is unlikely that this legal document was based on an investigation of his citizenships.
CMAkerman wrote:
Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:37 am
He never traveled abroad (that I can tell) so never had to declare his citizenship.
Citizenship is not something you declare, it is something you have or do not have.
Many countries (including Finland) also refuse to release citizens from their citizenship in some cases.

Migri has a form for people who "want to know if they are a Finnish citizen":
https://migri.fi/en/determination-of-citizenship

US senator Ted Cruz discovered at age 42 that he also had Canadian citizenship, he was a Canadian citizen from birth until his renunciation was accepted by Canada.
CMAkerman wrote:
Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:37 am
Would my grandfather, given where he was born and the year he was born, have been considered a Finnish citizen? I thought perhaps he might, given the legal document that was sent to him from Finland. Would he have had to declare acceptance of Finnish citizenship at a specific age to retain it, or is that a modern law in Finland now and would not have applied to someone born in 1915?
It is a modern law that you are no longer automatically losing Finnish citizenship when you get another one.
CMAkerman wrote:
Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:37 am
Sorry for all the questions! Any help would be wonderful, though, as it is hard getting answers from government agencies. Being Finnish means the world to me, and I hope that I qualify for OLE_EN, too.
Government agencies are not a free genealogy service, applying for OLE_EN would be a way for getting an official answer from a government agency.


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