As someone who has lived here for over a decade I can tell you that Finns do everything according to the book/law. There's nothing wrong with this, it's how the country keeps operating smoothly and it also means that everyone is generally treated as equals. No one is above the rules per say. So whilst it might look like some of the interpretation of the law that is going on, is a bit irrational or unnecessary, I would argue that knowing my rights is one of the sole reasons I've been able to live comfortably here. As I know for a fact there would have been quite a few situations where I would have been taken heavily advantage of if I had not known where I stand legally. In short, I think the only way to know something for sure, is to know if it has been written into law.
Unlike all the legalities that have been quoted over and over, your comment is purely just conjecture and opinion. Nothing wrong with that, but I think you'd be wrong. At least based on my own anecdotes I know far more people who were naturalized and still have served at the age of 30, than those who have not. In that, ALL of the people I know who were naturalized at 30 or younger served and NONE got out of it. Meaning that if I don't want to have to do it, I need to know exactly how that is possible from a legal point-of-view.Marty2000 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:12 amInitially I was thinking that military service in Finland is arranged like in 3rd world countries! in a way that as soon as one is liable for it, that person should be drafted immediately! However, after talking to some Finnish friends and learning more about the procedures, I found-out that there are only two call-up events in each year in July and January which are usually reserved for Finnish youth (18yo) well in advance as study places are reserved. Hence there are no Call-ups for naturalized citizens but instead regional offices will examine men liable on a case by case basis!
Again, I think you'd be wrong. The law is pretty clear here. Anyone who gets citizenship after the age of 18, the only thing that concerns them legally is that they will be asked for an assessment if they have never had one. Presumably this would ALWAYS be the case, as they would not have an assessment for duty at any time before they became a citizen (as non-citizens are not subject to conscription). There's really nothing more to it. Haven't had an assessment? Then the law says that you get one. For them to even know if you are fit/able wouldn't be unfairly inconvenienced and all that, you need to be assessed, so your statement is sort of a catch-22. They don't know until they ask, and the law simply states that they ask. Furthermore, it states that you're obligated to tell and show up and if you don't, you're committing an offense. In fact, I cannot find the article now but there was an YLE article written at the end of 2019 that stated Finland was pushing hard for the revoking of citizenship for those who refused their army service, though it seemed to concern really only those who were granted it overseas but did not show up to Finland to serve (simply living overseas was not a valid excuse). So these people were moved to have their decision reversed if they didn't fly to Finland and serve.Marty2000 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:12 amThis means that regardless of the time being granted citizenship before July or after that in the year one turns 30yo, you'll be invited for military service assessment only if there's space/needs! Considering Corona situation and limitation it has imposed, it seems highly unlikely that regional offices would want a 30yo who has just become citizen which may have a lot of physical, financial, and not to forget Finnish language deficiencies to replace an 18yo Finnish youth!
True but I would obviously like to avoid relying on such things. Like I said, this is a country where everything is generally done according to the book/law. No one is above that. I don't really have compassionate grounds either. I'm not looking after kids or anything. As for the postponing of 3 years, 3 years is the maximum and as far as I understand it's on a case-by-case basis. They can ask you to take an assessment again the following year if it seems that your unsuitability is only going to have you miss the that year's call-ups and is a result of a short-term problem. Furthermore, it's written in the law (can't remember what section and the exact specifics) that service can be postponed up until the conscript is 27/28 years of age. After which, no more postponing occurs, you either do your service or you are permanently exempted if there is good reason at that time. I'm not about to go on record or lie either and fake reasons (aka "dodge the draft" in §122). I'm not a dishonest person, I just have my own reasons for not wanting to do the service.Marty2000 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:12 amIn any eventuality, one can always ask for compassionate exemption based on all the above personal issues. There's also civil service which I read can usually be postponed up to three years because of personal financial difficulties, which means there is an appeal process even for that!
I think you'd find that in war everyone is as unequal as each other... A 30 year old conscript is just as useful (maybe even more so) than a fresh 18 year old native Finn. I also speak near native Swedish and professional level Finnish so I couldn't claim "language ignorance".Marty2000 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:12 amI personally think that like everything else in Finland that a foreigner (especially non-European/white) is considered a burden compared to a native Finn, most probably it's the same in the eyes of military's regional offices mangers when it comes to drafting 30yo foreigners!
Anyway, I think it's just best to go according to the laws. I think the only thing that isn't written in the law, but is very likely is that if you are 30 years of age at the time you get citizenship granted, and the date you were granted is after the second and final draft/call-up (first week of July every year). Then you are most likely not going that year. You maybe called for an assessment, you would have the possibility presumably to state that it is pointless because you are excepted next year from duty and wouldn't be going this year (and definitely don't want to next year). Whether they would honor that, I've no idea. But for me personally, the only logical conclusion by which I measured everything else, is that things would go according to the book. Which is, you're excepted from service, so they would either not ask for assessment in the first place or would relieve you from needing to be assessed and thus serving when you mentioned it. Seeing as everything is done by the book/law.
Also I read up on what Coronavirus has done this year regarding conscription and the answer is absolutely nothing. Only spread out assessments a bit and you have to wash your hands etc and stand a little further away from others when in groups. It has not resulted in less conscripts serving at all. There is no way Finland would let people dodge because of Coronavirus unless you were infected with it.
I think it's probably good to get back on full topic of citizenship applications now I think I know enough. I will just apply later into the year and yes I guess argue that I am excepted if I get it before year's end and they send me an assessment notice.