How long does it take to learn the Finnish language?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:43 pm

I was wondering, not only for my own peace of mind, but also for that of others (or as a major demotivation) how long it takes to learn Finnish. Average. Take for example someone who's well-motivated to learn, willing to take courses and study for it (not in high-speed tempo, but at normal pass).

I'm talking about a 'normal' communication level. Understanding what people are talking about and being able to participate in conversations with general subjects.

I've been taking the Summer University grammar courses, 1-8 in a row.
I heavily underestimated the language (or overestimated my own capacities). I do know a lot more than a year ago when I came here, but I'm still not able to participate in conversations. If I'm listening to people speaking, it takes me about the time of their conversation to translate the first sentence.

So... Is this normal or should I have known the language by now?

**Sponsor:**

kalmisto · Post by **kalmisto** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 10:42 pm

American Mormons learn Finnish very quickly. What is their secret? Would it be a stupid idea to call them and ask them how they do it!

I believe that they learn the basics of Finnish grammar in a language school and then they learn by speaking the language . I once asked a young Mormon how he had learned Finnish and he answered "Puhumalla" ( by speaking )

Samppa · Post by **Samppa** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:02 pm

Finnish is not that hard, it seems logical and the pronounciation is relatively easy. If you already know 3 or 4 languages then one more won't be a big deal.

The mormon was right. You cannot learn a language without practise. Listening and trying to speak is the only way. Too bad I leave Finland every year so early. After living for a few weeks in Finland my ear starts to "catch the words", i.e. the ear stops hearing the "set of weirds sounds", but it starts to form the sounds into words and get their meaning. I believe in half a year or maximum a year I'd speak Finnish fairly enough.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:17 am

Samppa wrote:Finnish is not that hard, it seems logical and the pronounciation is relatively easy. If you already know 3 or 4 languages then one more won't be a big deal.

Well... Swedish and Finnish are my 5th and 6th language. It took me 3/4 of a year to be able to understand and speak Swedish. But Finnish is a whole different story...
I am at the point where I understand words here and there and can basically pick out what the conversation is about. But that's it...

Tom and Jerry · Post by **Tom and Jerry** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:36 am

Oh boy, I've had 9 or 10 languages. Lucky, I forgot most of them.
So, I'm not so proud of that.

That's the good news. A long time ago I worked even in Portugal. I do remember it was a matter of months to pick up workable knowledge of a language, thus Portuguese. I like to watch today the RTPI television. Also with Swedish or Norwegian or whatever. It's a matter of months. Not perfect knowledge, but enough to follow a simple conversation, television, and to participate in a simple conversation.

Now with Finnish, that is something different. With hard work you may reach the intermediate level in two-three years. And that is hard work, hard work, hard work. If you don't get what I mean, I will repeat it:
hard work, hard work, hard work.

If you don't know what I mean with intermediate level go to the site of the opetushallitus, they have an explanation there.
http://www.oph.fi

What else? The Finnish courses are not that perfect. These have to be completed with visits to sports clubs, bars, meetings, or whatever hobby you have.

How long does it take? Perhaps you would like to learn fishing in Finland.
You may get easier a fish (salmon) of five kilo then learning to speak fluently Finnish. And fishing is a lot of fun in Finland.

Tom and Jerry · Post by **Tom and Jerry** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:47 am

Arno wrote:I was wondering, not only for my own peace of mind, but also for that of others (or as a major demotivation) how long it takes to learn Finnish.

Fishing will give you peace of mind. It's in September a good season.

Samppa · Post by **Samppa** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 10:03 am

The problem of Finnish (or maybe it's our problem..) is that is has "dialects". What welearn with hard work, hard work and once again hard work is a totally different language than the people speak in the streets, offices, shops, pubs. That's why, in my opinion, forget about hard work and start to listen, listen and listen carefully. Then speak, speak and speak a lot.

PeterF · Post by **PeterF** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 10:24 am

To speak Finnish well enough to be able to walk into a pub in the middle of a conversation between locals and to be able to understand enough so that you can join in the conversation is my personal test.
I can just about manage that now.
But they.. e.g Hank.. often have problems with my pronunciation. I think it was him that told me that my vocabulary improves rapidly with beer but my pronunciation gets worst at a faster rate.
I found that Finnish comprehension came in steps with a very steep, at some times almost vertical, gradient.
But I started to learn when I was over 50 years old I am sure a younger brain learns quicker.
When I started I often hit a wall which seemed impossible to pass.
But I got past and progressed to the next wall.
Then one day you find that you no longer have to think about the case endings or if it should be partativi plural..it just comes out of your mouth because it feels right.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 10:29 am

kalmisto wrote: and he answered "Puhumalla" ( by speaking )

Usually they answer "puuhumala" (wood-drunk) though, but their grammar and vocabulary is astonishingly good. Intonation sucks, but they usually do a crash course for a year or two so it can be done. (there is a bit on mormon missionaries, the "mission impossible" in HS int.edition, a good read. http://www.helsinki-hs.net/news.asp?id=20010502IE14 ) the Finnish edition had a bit on their schooling before the missionary work.

What they are missing, as most anglophones, is the 'deprogramming' from the English alphabet. And then of course lacking intonation, but that is harder.

gerg_861 · Post by **gerg_861** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 8:56 am

Hi,

I think that I can usefully chime in on this subject, I studied Finnish intensively in Univesity for a year, the equivalent of 4 semesters or 14 U.S. college credits, however at the end of that time I could kinda read finnish. After that I studied on my own for another year, but not as intensively. This summer however I lived in Lahti, and at first I was totally lost, but by leaving the house, interacting with strangers, refusing to speak english and watching Salatut Elamat every day, I could almost speak and understand finnish, and I read through all the Harry Potter books.(those that are in finnish) In fact, I would really suggest the Harry Potter books as a good stepping stone up from simple childrens books, my page/hour rate went from 2 at the start of the first book, up to 30 at the end of the 4th book. Of course, now that I'm back in the states it's annoyingly slipping away.

Caroline · Post by **Caroline** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:01 am

Samppa wrote:The problem of Finnish (or maybe it's our problem..) is that is has "dialects". What welearn with hard work, hard work and once again hard work is a totally different language than the people speak in the streets, offices, shops, pubs. That's why, in my opinion, forget about hard work and start to listen, listen and listen carefully. Then speak, speak and speak a lot.

Samppa, every language has dialects. Also, in every language people speak (colloquial) differently from how words are written. Finnish is not unique in that sense. Did you maybe mean "cases" are different?

It took me about 5 years of independent study before I was able to have regular speed conversations, but most of that time I wasn't living here yet, so if I had been, I most likely would have adjusted faster.

But, like most foreigners, I also learned the Helsinki speech style, and even though it might not be the most "authentic" style, it is the one I am most comfortable with, and so I cannot communicate easily with Oulu or Lappish folks, who tend to clip off words and remove the D's...."uudestaan" becomes "uu'estaa", and "käydä" becomes "käy'ä"..."syödä"= syö'ä", etc.

kalmisto · Post by **kalmisto** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:15 pm

>> It took me about 5 years of independent study before I was able to have regular speed conversations, but most of that time I wasn't living here yet, so if I had been, I most likely would have adjusted faster <<

Independent study ? You mean that you never took any language courses?
How did you study Finnish? An Arab who lives in Oulu told me that he tried to learn Finnish by studying grammar books but he got tired of the grammar because he found it so difficult.

Caroline · Post by **Caroline** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:57 pm

kalmisto wrote:>> It took me about 5 years of independent study before I was able to have regular speed conversations, but most of that time I wasn't living here yet, so if I had been, I most likely would have adjusted faster <<

Independent study ? You mean that you never took any language courses?
How did you study Finnish? An Arab who lives in Oulu told me that he tried to learn Finnish by studying grammar books but he got tired of the grammar because he found it so difficult.

The core of what I learned was on my own- from books, internet relay chat, and visiting Finland. It's a lot harder to do it that way, but possible. But I also have a strong linguistic background, so that helped, even though my previous language studies were unrelated: at one time fluent in French, and studied Spanish and Latin.

I attended a few class sessions- audited (meaning without credit/just for fun) at the university level, and at Oulun opisto, but the vast majority of the lessons were review of material I already knew.

arty fact · Post by **arty fact** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 6:39 pm

Even if Finnish it is your own language , you still won't know everything to perfection, ever! Languages change, grammar rules as well, street contributions fathom daily conversation, etc. Besides, you learn other languages and that means work, too. I enjoyed most in learning this language, reading Muumies books and other simple stories.

Caroline · Post by **Caroline** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 7:42 pm

arty fact wrote:Even if Finnish it is your own language , you still won't know everything to perfection, ever! Languages change, grammar rules as well, street contributions fathom daily conversation, etc. Besides, you learn other languages and that means work, too

Absolutely!

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