Taxes- A Picture

pierrot · Post by **pierrot** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:24 pm

superiorinferior wrote: There is nothing reassuring about "National Health Care" when it actually doesn't exist in reality!

but... I won't go on and on. I will just keep paying and keep paying and keep hoping.... After all, isn't that what a real Finn would do?

You forgot the mannerism

superiorinferior wrote:p.s. I liked that part about "if you don't like it, leave..." very original. Unfortunately, I've got a family I am supposedly providing for. They wouldn't take nicely to low-tax Boston.

Almost as original as "boohoooooo, Finland is so evil to me!"

I left countries because i didnt like them.
If things would bother you THAT much, i can imagine you would talk with your family about going to the USA with them. You are still here.
So I think it might not be THAT bad here in Suomi.

**Sponsor:**

otyikondo · Post by **otyikondo** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:34 pm

superiorinferior wrote:
pierrot wrote: Something has to be done about it.
I guess that just leaves the question: What needs to be done, and who the hell is going to do it, if Finns are so friggin happy about the system???!

Not sure anyone's HAPPY as such, but there is:

Inertia. Needs a good war or economic diarrhoea to shift that.

Fear of the unknown. Deep down, the inferiority-complex tagged Finns believe they've got their 5h!t together better than anyone else, and are perturbed at the fringe phenomena they see in countries who've mucked about with the comfy safety net. Blame that on the media, if you like, but they actually WORRY about a world in which the rich get richer and the poor have to forge the will to inherit the earth.

Lack of political will. One of the downsides of coalition government, I guess. But the chances of a party in this country getting an overall majority and a mandate to drag the country screaming towards a free-for-all system are roughly akin to that one about the rocking horse droppings in the nursery.

So we shall moulder on in quiet desperation in the Finnish way until the pension bomb explodes in our faces, by which time I sincerely hope I shall be enjoying the fruits of my own voluntary plan somewhere where the air is warm and rich and strange. Chin-chin!

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:29 pm

Ah... I this thread's descended into an Eduskuntatalo-esqu idealogical argument...

I'd have preferred that we went in the direction of "how to optimise" the amount of tax that one pays, rather than discussing if it's a good/bad thing (the answer, of course, is both)

The next Thread in this series might be a picture of what you get if you're self-employed. Any takers?

-Mook

superiorinferior · Post by **superiorinferior** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:29 am

Mook wrote: I'd have preferred that we went in the direction of "how to optimise" the amount of tax that one pays, rather than discussing if it's a good/bad thing (the answer, of course, is both)

The next Thread in this series might be a picture of what you get if you're self-employed. Any takers?

well, to open things up... i shall now make a very broad, flame-inducing generalisation:

"optimisation," of tax payments (= paying less), and for that matter things as simple as taking out a mortgage is geared to the wealthy and to Finnish citizens with family connections.

example: you can't get the hefty homeowner's tax break unless, of course, you are paying off a mortgage. you can't get a mortgage unless you have a (not insignificant) percentage of collateral as a guarantee for the bank. all of the banks i tried getting loans at would take cash or property in collateral, but the bank/property had to be in Finland. You could, for instance, have a parent or other relative/friend co-sign the loan .. but the person and the assets would have to be from Finland. you can't decrease your taxes this way, unless you are finnish or independently wealthy (and then you really wouldn't NEED a tax break anyway).

but i'm not complaining. finnish life is sweet. I LOVE PAYING TAXES. that's why i do it daily.

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:14 am

superiorinferior wrote: you can't get the hefty homeowner's tax break unless...

Hefty?

Vero wrote:If the capital income after deducting expenses and interests is negative, 29% of the loss can be deducted from state tax, the maximum deduction being EUR 1,400"

Only if you have some capital income (from shares, share dividends, interest)

and if you can afford your own property, you probably earn too much to be eligible for a HITAS apartment.

craig_karr · Post by **craig_karr** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:21 pm

About the church tax, is it possible to avoid it by not joining any church?

dave071061 · Post by **dave071061** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:56 pm

superiorinferior wrote:
you can't get a mortgage unless you have a (not insignificant) percentage of collateral as a guarantee for the bank.

Then you need to try a different bank, I got my house loan with 5% deposit, Hardly an unreasonable %

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 3:19 pm

craig_karr wrote:About the church tax, is it possible to avoid it by not joining any church?

Yes.

Eleo50 · Post by **Eleo50** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:30 pm

Could somebody educate me regarding the "sick care" and dentists in Finland? What's so bad?

Thanks.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:17 pm

craig_karr wrote:About the church tax, is it possible to avoid it by not joining any church?

Not any - not joining a "tax-rights" church, which reads in the law book so say Evangelic-Lutheran and Orthodox churches have automatic taxing rights. So all the rest of religious congregations not on the list must then beg for alms from their members to be able to run.

ajdias · Post by **ajdias** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:21 pm

craig_karr wrote:About the church tax, is it possible to avoid it by not joining any church?

Yes. Only the EVL and the orthodox churches get money from the taxes of their faithfull. Other confessions get "voluntary" contributions.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:23 am

I think you have to fill in a form in order NOT to pay the church tax but then you might have problems getting a church wedding or having your kids baptised, though I believe they cannot refuse to bury you....

sinikala · Post by **sinikala** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:15 pm

penelope wrote:I think you have to fill in a form in order NOT to pay the church tax but then you might have problems getting a church wedding or having your kids baptised, though I believe they cannot refuse to bury you....

Are you sure this is right for foreigners? I know for the natices it's opt out... is it true for foreigners?

My SO used to have something on her payslip for church deductions... 1%(?) of salary? She opted out and it disappeared from her payslip.

I worked at the same place and never had anything about church deductions on my payslips.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:56 pm

sinikala wrote:
penelope wrote:I think you have to fill in a form in order NOT to pay the church tax but then you might have problems getting a church wedding or having your kids baptised, though I believe they cannot refuse to bury you....
Are you sure this is right for foreigners? I know for the natices it's opt out... is it true for foreigners?

My SO used to have something on her payslip for church deductions... 1%(?) of salary? She opted out and it disappeared from her payslip.

I worked at the same place and never had anything about church deductions on my payslips.

Could be true that foreigners don't get clobbered automatically. It might have something to do with Bib Brother Master Data Base... if you declared uourself as a Jehovah's Witness or Catholic or Buddhist or whatever when you registered as resident then I guess they already have the info.

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:34 am

http://sarcast.net/tax/finnish_tax_2004.xls

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Taxes- A Picture

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