Living there without speaking Finnish

[sammy]

Hei!

I`m just wondering `bout something... I am about to move to Finland (at least for a year) and my Finnish is very poor. I`m still learning and am gonna study it a lot more over there. (But it`s really gonna need some time still untill I`ll be able to communicate in Finnish...) So, my daily talk language would be English and what I`m wondering about is, if that might seem a little impolite to the Finns? Like living there but not knowing their language...

Well I for one wouldn't think it is impolite to "not know Finnish". After all, we're not supposing anyone can learn Finnish by just breathing some snowy winter air. Besides, even if you know just a little it's usually a good thing.

You'll get by in English in most situations, don't worry about that. Especially in the cities. It's the more "official" matters that can cause problems if you don't know the lingo... getting a job, for a start. Not everything is available in English. But everyday life... no problem I'd say.

[sinikettu]

By saying "living there" I assume that you mean Helsinki and not in some small rural community.

Finland is much like any other country even Germany..
If you wander around Frankfurt/Bonn/Berlin you will be able to speak English and someone will be able to understand...usually..
If you do the same in some small Bavarian village...

Come to Finland and in Helsinki most of the Finns under the age of 30 were taught English as must learn subject at school.
They might pretend they dont understand..because they are shy..but rarely do you find your self in a situation where nobody speaks English.

Out in the forest....they did not put so much pressure on at the schools to learn English...but even in quite small communities I have often been surprised when some 12-14 year old has heard that I am not a Finn and Piped up..."Oh are you English?....I am learning English at school!".

By the way as you are going to be a student here..many of your fellow student will be in the same situation as you...the courses for EU students pull in students from all over the EU.

[daryl]

Hei!

I`m just wondering `bout something... I am about to move to Finland (at least for a year) and my Finnish is very poor. I`m still learning and am gonna study it a lot more over there. (But it`s really gonna need some time still untill I`ll be able to communicate in Finnish...) So, my daily talk language would be English and what I`m wondering about is, if that might seem a little impolite to the Finns? Like living there but not knowing their language...

There are quite a few immigrants who have lived in Finland for many years without learning the language of the host community (i.e. Finnish or Swedish). This is particularly true of English speakers - either native speakers or others with a good command of English.

These immigrants survive by narrowing their cultural and social horizons. In effect they live in an expatriate bubble populated by other foreigners and a few Finnish people with the necessary linguistic and cultural skills. They also become highly dependent on that bubble community and on their immediate families and close friends. In other words, the temporary survival strategies of the newly-arrived immigrant slowly become an established habit and way of life. An immigrant in this situation can only pursue activities in which there are other supporting members of the expatriate bubble. This is a substantial loss of personal independence.

It also goes without saying that immigrants in this situation are among the most vulnerable members of society, as they essentially survive on the charity of others. Expatriate bubbles tend to harbour a great deal of "immigrant folklore", i.e. false ideas about society as a whole that are either based on an incomplete understanding of the system or on facts that have become outdated following reforms. I still occasionally meet foreigners who tell me that I cannot own real estate in Finland and that any political activity will automatically get me a one-way ticket out of the country with a police escort.

The corrosive effects of this narrow existence on personal self-respect generally become clear when some misfortune occurs, perhaps after many years in Finland. Such misfortunes include divorce, bereavement, illness and involuntary unemployment, and of course everyone eventually grows old. An immigrant who has remained in the expatriate bubble for many years is usually poorly equipped to deal with such situations. Furthermore, the option of leaving Finland may be equally unpleasant, as the immigrant often has personal ties (children etc.) to Finland and has also become estranged from the original country of origin.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

The key to all of this, naturally, is to become an integrated member of the host community by learning its language and getting involved in its life, growth and development. You seem to be keen to do this, and I hope that you can retain this motivation as you tackle the day-to-day business of living in Finland.

daryl

[sammy]

And, come to think of it, German is not completely unkown here either. Not nearly as wide-spread as English, but you might -with luck- also meet Finns who know German as well.

Zum beispiel, Ich habe für ein oder zwei Jahre Deutsch im Schule gelernt... aber es war nicht genug Ich denke! Es ist für mich ganz schwer Deutsch zu sprechen

But yeah - as daryl said above, to integrate into the society, and this is true more or less wherever you go on this globe, you need the lingo. If you're just "passing", as an exchange student, it is not so necessary - but even then, it of course makes sense to learn at least some of the local language.

[otyikondo]

Jeez.. in the unlikeliest places and threads, you run into one... a @#$% blockbuster of a post.

It's what makes message-boarding such a fun pastime, despite all the dross.

Daryl, I salute you. In four or five short paragraphs, you have NAILED IT.

Crunchy: read, mark, and digest what he wrote. It's pure GOLD.

(Goes off, shaking his head, muttering 'Wow'.)

[sinikettu]

Jeez.. in the unlikeliest places and threads, you run into one... a @#$% blockbuster of a post.

It's what makes message-boarding such a fun pastime, despite all the dross.

Daryl, I salute you. In four or five short paragraphs, you have NAILED IT.

Crunchy: read, mark, and digest what he wrote. It's pure GOLD.

(Goes off, shaking his head, muttering 'Wow'.)

I second that motion...Daryl whoever you are..That post should be handed out to all arrivals at Vantaa who intend to stay here for more than a few months.
It should be linked to the "must read" section of all Immigrant BBs.

[Hank W.]

Furthermore, the option of leaving Finland may be equally unpleasant, as the immigrant often has personal ties (children etc.) to Finland and has also become estranged from the original country of origin.

Imagine having left Finland in 1965 and returning to live there in 2005... having a rosy image of UKK in 1965 left in the back of your head... I've met older people that say moved to Australia in 50's and 60's and have come back to retire. Oh, man, imagine the culture shock. They are, after 50 odd years "foreigners"...

[otyikondo]

Furthermore, the option of leaving Finland may be equally unpleasant, as the immigrant often has personal ties (children etc.) to Finland and has also become estranged from the original country of origin.

Imagine having left Finland in 1965 and returning to live there in 2005... having a rosy image of UKK in 1965 left in the back of your head... I've met older people that say moved to Australia in 50's and 60's and have come back to retire. Oh, man, imagine the culture shock. They are, after 50 odd years "foreigners"...

"Going back" is the hardest thing... and four years is enough, it doesn't require forty.

[mrjimsfc]

I know many (too many) who are afraid to go back.

[vampe]

Hei!

I`m just wondering `bout something... I am about to move to Finland (at least for a year) and my Finnish is very poor. I`m still learning and am gonna study it a lot more over there. (But it`s really gonna need some time still untill I`ll be able to communicate in Finnish...) So, my daily talk language would be English and what I`m wondering about is, if that might seem a little impolite to the Finns? Like living there but not knowing their language...

There are quite a few immigrants who have lived in Finland for many years without learning the language of the host community (i.e. Finnish or Swedish). This is particularly true of English speakers - either native speakers or others with a good command of English.

These immigrants survive by narrowing their cultural and social horizons. In effect they live in an expatriate bubble populated by other foreigners and a few Finnish people with the necessary linguistic and cultural skills. They also become highly dependent on that bubble community and on their immediate families and close friends. In other words, the temporary survival strategies of the newly-arrived immigrant slowly become an established habit and way of life. An immigrant in this situation can only pursue activities in which there are other supporting members of the expatriate bubble. This is a substantial loss of personal independence.

It also goes without saying that immigrants in this situation are among the most vulnerable members of society, as they essentially survive on the charity of others. Expatriate bubbles tend to harbour a great deal of "immigrant folklore", i.e. false ideas about society as a whole that are either based on an incomplete understanding of the system or on facts that have become outdated following reforms. I still occasionally meet foreigners who tell me that I cannot own real estate in Finland and that any political activity will automatically get me a one-way ticket out of the country with a police escort.

The corrosive effects of this narrow existence on personal self-respect generally become clear when some misfortune occurs, perhaps after many years in Finland. Such misfortunes include divorce, bereavement, illness and involuntary unemployment, and of course everyone eventually grows old. An immigrant who has remained in the expatriate bubble for many years is usually poorly equipped to deal with such situations. Furthermore, the option of leaving Finland may be equally unpleasant, as the immigrant often has personal ties (children etc.) to Finland and has also become estranged from the original country of origin.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

The key to all of this, naturally, is to become an integrated member of the host community by learning its language and getting involved in its life, growth and development. You seem to be keen to do this, and I hope that you can retain this motivation as you tackle the day-to-day business of living in Finland.

daryl

I think it'd have to be a little ignorant to move to a country and not put the expectation upon yourself to learn the language.

[Hank W.]

Well, that is what happens. It is quite a bit more difficult to live in a bubble in rural Finland though than in a big city. Though even in Helsinki the bubble is quite small compared to other countries with larger immigrant "bases".

Somehow, some Finns still have this premonition "its no use getting to know the foreigner, they'll be here for a few years and then move away because they can't cope with us here"... So the foreigner comes frustrated in 2-3 years and moves out because nobody is their friend... QED?