cost of living in Helsinki?

[lili]

Hi,
We are currently living in Canada (for the last 10 years),have a Canadian citizenship but originaly are from Europe. We lived in Germany and France. My husband has been offered a job in Helsinki (highly professional) but we are waiting for a formal offer. We are very excited to move to Finlad and even learn another lenguage (already speak four). The problem is that we do not know how good is a good offer to lieve a comfortable life. We are a family of three (with a teenage daughter starting a high school in september- she is already accepted here into a IB program) We also own a dog and a cat. We would like to rent an three bedroom appartement in Helsinki.
How much do we need per month?
Please help. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

[sinikala]

Others opinions may vary... and it depends on your lifestyle
- can you manage without a car?
- will you also work or will you live on just your husband's income
- are looking for a furnished or unfurnished apartment.

Three kids, cat, dog, no car, unfurnished flat in Hki, I'd guesstimate you need a min of €5k p.c.m. between you, before tax. Closer to €7k would make life easier.

Live in the suburbs instead of Hki and you can lower the apartment rental price, but then you will certainly need a car.

[Rosamunda]

I don't think giving "before tax" advice is totally helpful. It's best to negotiate salary "net in the pocket" in my opinion.

Also depends which IB school you mean (ISH???? 12 K euro per child per year.... Reesu is free.)

It is impossible to answer this kind of post.... what is "live a good life" : eat in a restaurant 2-3 nights a week? Trips abroad twice a year? Will your kids want music lessons.... All services are VERY expensive in Finland.

Give us a list of items you spend your money on and we can tell you how much they cost....

Eg bottle of drinkable chilean red 9 euro
cinema ticket 10 euro

[Hank W.]

Yeah, the money that is left in hand between paydays quite much dictates the comfort level.

[sinikala]

I don't think giving "before tax" advice is totally helpful. It's best to negotiate salary "net in the pocket" in my opinion.

If I understood correctly, the poster wanted to know what would be a good salary offer.

Finnish employers typically offer a salary per month, (in contrast with the UK where we usually talk about the salary per annum). Employers, in my limited experience, are not usually bothered what the employee will actually receive after taxation.

Unless Lili has an inate knowledge of Finnish tax rates and salary deductions, then she will have a hard time connecting your "net in the pocket" figure with the salary offer her husband will receive.

[lili]

Thank you Penelope and Sinikala for your responses. I need to give you more details. First of all, I need to clarify, we have only one child. Yes, we were looking at the ISH (because of the IB program) and are aware of the cost. We beleive that we would be offerred relocation package that would include importing one of cars( definitely don't need two) and furniture. So, we are looking for unfurnished appartmant in Helsinki (mainly because of the school). I am chemist and will look for a job as soon as we arrive. We would like to be able to have one summer (Europe) and one winter (skiing) vacation.Our daughter was involved in competative downhill skiing that she would not continue even if we stay in Canada.That was our main cost beside vacation.We love to go to the opera, concerts once in a while. Other than that we spend every weekend outside hiking, biking or just enjoying city parks and streets. I hope this helps.

[U]

We paid rent 1,800 Euro a month for about 160 sm2 in Katajanokka (Helsinki city centre). It has three bed rooms, a living room and a dining room, unfournished, but kitchen is full equiped. I was told it was a good renting price as others pay 2,300 to 2,500 Euro a month to a similar apartment. I know the landlord has raised the rent to 2,000 when we moved out a few months ago.

I personelly think Helssinki is a very expensive place to live. Good luck and Welcome to Finland

[raamv]

If you are thinking about ISh and living close to the centre of helsinki, with a family, one of the good place so Ruholahthi!!! Rent is around Euro 1000 for 70-75 Sqm of space so adjust your price. Also, Ruholahti is good for both Bus, tram and Metro connections!! So you will also love the sea-canal that comes as backwaters!!! and then it soo safe that its a family area!! We lived there for a year before we moved outta town for other reasons!!
Good Luck!!
PS: If you have a family, I would avoid some places like Kallio etc etc my opinion so use your discretion!!

[sinikettu]

If you are thinking about ISh and living close to the centre of helsinki, with a family, one of the good place so Ruholahthi!!! PS: If you have a family, I would avoid some places like Kallio etc etc my opinion so use your discretion!!

One reason I avoid Kallio area is that it is quite "hilly" and all of the hills seem to go "upwards!"...
Ruoholahti would also be my cost/location choice if I had to live close to down town. It means.."Grassy Bay"

Here is a map of Helsinki.
It has a search facility.

http://kartta.hel.fi/opas/main/?lang=en
Put "ruoholahti" into street search...to the left of the map you will see a selection, select "RUOHOLAHDEN METROASEMA "
.and it will zoom into the area.
Do not be confused when you see...Ruoholahden..it is one of the "features" of the Finnish language.

[Rosamunda]

I would also check out all the IB schools before you make your choice. Ressu offers a full IB programme (centre of Helsinki) and there is an IB high school in Espoo (Mattliden in Matinkylä). Just because ISH takes a fee doesn't make it the best school in town. IMO you should visit the schools and look for yourself. But you need to act quickly because Ressu is oversubscribed (ISH always has places...)

Espoo is a good choice if you like "outdoor" stuff. You might like to live on the coast in say Haukilahti : it takes 10 mins on the bus to get into Helsinki but you have all the advantages of being out of town. There are small houses rivitalo (terraced houses) and paritalo (semi-detached) and also apartments along the coast in southern Espoo. We rented a paritalo in Iirislahti for one year at just under 2000 euro a month, (we have 3 kids so it was bigger than you would need). It was right on the sea - fab place for walking the dog, not far from a good shopping mall, close to football and ice hockey practice (kids). We managed with only one car, the kids and I used public transport. Two of my kids were at ISH at the time but have since moved to an Espoo school.

I disagree with sinikala re the tax issue. My husband negotiated on a net salary basis when we moved here. You really need to know how much your disposable income will be, the employer can figure out the gross, that's his problem. Any fringe benefits will be taxable (car, school fees, rent, even possibly your move over) so it is quite difficult to work out your net income from the gross. Your employer should be able to give you all the info, especially if it's a large company that is used to relocating people. But IMO if you are paying city centre rent 1.5K€ month and school fees 1K€ month out of your own pocket, plus running a car (petrol is 1.40 euro / litre), plus holidays abroad.....

I know a couple of relocation agents, PM me if you want contact details, your spouse's future employer may be prepared to pay for one. They help you find housing, fix up all your paperwork and generally help you get settled.

You will find it difficult to get a job unless you have a very specialised background. The language issue is a major barrier to finding work here. There is lots of info about learning Finnish on this forum.

You can PM me (en francais si tu veux) if you have more questions.

[Hank W.]

We paid rent 1,800 Euro a month for about 160 sm2 ...

I personelly think Helssinki is a very expensive place to live. Good luck and Welcome to Finland

Yeah, well, if someone pays rent more than I make in cash after taxes and lives in a mansion that is 3x my flat I really cannot coment on "living expenses" being expensive... Why do you rich people complain so much???

And anyone with half a brain would buy and invest the yearly 24K into the mortgage - the interest rates are around 3% - instead of throwing it out the window, but I guess rich people don't need to concern themselves with money issues...

[Hank W.]

One reason I avoid Kallio area is that it is quite "hilly".

I'd rather avoid it due to the 'odor de wino'....

[Rosamunda]

We paid rent 1,800 Euro a month for about 160 sm2 ...

I personelly think Helssinki is a very expensive place to live. Good luck and Welcome to Finland

Yeah, well, if someone pays rent more than I make in cash after taxes and lives in a mansion that is 3x my flat I really cannot coment on "living expenses" being expensive... Why do you rich people complain so much???

And anyone with half a brain would buy and invest the yearly 24K into the mortgage - the interest rates are around 3% - instead of throwing it out the window, but I guess rich people don't need to concern themselves with money issues...

Yes... but if you are on an ex-pat contract and only planning to stay for a year or two then buying is a bit risky. Premium priced property in city centres is the first to fluctuate (downwards) at any sniff of a recession. And if you don't actually live in Finland then choosing the right place is almost impossible. So you end up renting (most rental leases stipulate a minimum period eg one year) while you look for a place to buy. As you say, it really is money out of the window but in most cases it is the company who is paying the rent and the tax that goes with it. That doesn't mean the in-coming ex-pat is actually putting a whole lot more dosh than you in his pocket at the end of the month (he's probably paying off a mortgage back home) and it doesn't mean he is rich, even though it looks like it on paper. But yes, generally, an ex-pat contract is a great deal.... while it lasts. Go for it.

The rents on bigger flats and houses are mental. I have seen houses as far out as Saunalahti (edge of Espoo/Kirkkonummi) going for as much as 3800 a month....

[sinikala]

I need to give you more details. First of all, I need to clarify, we have only one child. Yes, we were looking at the ISH (because of the IB program) and are aware of the cost. We beleive that we would be offerred relocation package that would include importing one of cars( definitely don't need two) and furniture. So, we are looking for unfurnished appartmant in Helsinki (mainly because of the school). I am chemist and will look for a job as soon as we arrive. We would like to be able to have one summer (Europe) and one winter (skiing) vacation.Our daughter was involved in competative downhill skiing that she would not continue even if we stay in Canada.That was our main cost beside vacation.We love to go to the opera, concerts once in a while. Other than that we spend every weekend outside hiking, biking or just enjoying city parks and streets. I hope this helps.

I read family of three kids instead of family of three, oops!

What sort of chemist are you? If you are a chemistry graduate (as opposed to a dispensing chemist), then you might look for work at one of the Unis

http://kemia.tkk.fi/en/osasto/index.html
http://www.helsinki.fi/research/index.shtml
or VTT
http://www.vtt.fi/careers/index.jsp?lang=en

where an initial lack of Finnish language skills will not be a problem. I'd start asking ASAP.

Finding a job in the Finnish chemical industry without Finnish language may be harder.

[Hank W.]

The rents on bigger flats and houses are mental. I have seen houses as far out as Saunalahti (edge of Espoo/Kirkkonummi) going for as much as 3800 a month....

Well, as they say, it is not the madman who asks, its the madman who pays