s**t, f**k, and the n-word...welcome to finland?

[katertomater]

I heard these offensive words while shopping at H&M this weekend. I was shocked! They sell CHILDREN'S clothing and are playing music like this throughout the store. When I mentioned to the staff that I found the music offensive, she rudely replied, "welcome to Finland"

What to do? I know I'm not in the US, but one would think that a store like that would be safe to bring children to, I'm worried that if things continue like this, I won't be able to take my English speaking children anywhere...
If you also find this troubling, go to H&M's website and voice your reaction. It wouldn't be so far to find hip music without swear words or racial slurs, would it?!

-Kate

[superiorinferior]

What to do? I know I'm not in the US,

No you're not.

You could voice your opinion in a letter to upper management but that rarely gets anywhere here in Finland.

However, I must note that if you are offended by naughty lyrics then don't shop there. There are a few other reasons that might keep reasonable westerners out of their shops too, one of which is their sweatshop practices. Check the labels and all of their clothing is made in the poorest of countries.

How do you think you can get that fancy knit pink cardigan for 13.90, anyways?

[kasimir1]

Remember that in Finland, English is not the native language!
Try working in the schools then, the kids speak MTV and will swear, but they only repeat it parrot fashion and in jest. Laugh with it! Even compliment them on their pronunciation! 'No no Jussi, emphasize the MOTHA and drop the R.'
As for H&M....There are two types of music, good and bad. Don't listen to music you don't like.


*revised version*

[Jussi]

Hey Hank! everytime I swear the forum program censors my words!Not fair!
Can any other readers find a swear word that the forum cannot censor?
Send your answers in, no prizes given for the best profanity.

4. Members should remember this board is aimed at a general audience. Topics which aim to debate US politics, the Middle East conflict, race or religion are likely to be removed. Posting pornographic or generally offensive text, images, links, attempts to circumvent word cencors etc. will not be tolerated and will lead to a warning or a ban

Not such a good idea

Forum Rules

[Hank W.]

I know I'm not in the US

One minute people complain you can't American this nor American that - then people complain they are playing American music. So stop complaining - its exactly what you were asking for ...music from the US.

You go tell them (c)rap artists to stop making that s**t, f**k, and the n-word "music", and complain to the RIAA of peddling it to Finland. It is *your* cultural imperialist national product you now have all the privilege to "enjoy" like the rest of us. As the (c)rap makes its way to the Finnish top 10 youth chart you can hear it of course in the H&M that profiles itsef as a trendy youth store - selling (c)rap clothes. It is not our problem that "trendy youth culture" is equalled with s**t, f**k, and the n-word "music" - it is those imperialist capitalist market forces at play.

I hold you Americans personally irresponsible, corrupting the Finnish youth with this kind of (c)rap music! the youth could be listening to Loituma or healthy Finnish ballads, like what Lordi sings.

And now back listening to my Grateful Dead collection... I was corrupted in the 1970's when the cultural imperialist national product called "music" was't crap...

[katertomater]

I know I'm not in the US

Yes, but the music is from the US. It is *your* cultural imperialist product One minute people complain you can't American this nor American that - then people complain they are playing American music. Stop complaining - its exactly what you were asking for...

Why are you attacking me?
I'm not "complaining" about American music, but rather the choice of music by a company that sells clothing for children. There are standards, these lyrics are not aired on Finnish radio stations, they warrent ratings in Finnish cinemas and restricted air times on Finnish television. Why can't we have similar standards in family-oriented Finnish shoppping places?

[Hank W.]

Why are you attacking me?

Welcome to Finland.

these lyrics are not aired on Finnish radio stations

Oh yes they are - you should listen to some of the 'dance specials' that come out. They don't make it necessarily to the mainstream 24-7 playlists but occasionally (like some reaggaeton that makes your socks twirl but people understand even less Spanish). But they don't give a s**t, f**k, and the n-word of the lyrics content these days.

Why can't we have similar standards in family-oriented Finnish shoppping places?

Wishful thinking for the perfect world. We can't because its just background noise like that elevator music probably for them - that has an appeal for the 12-16 year old crowd that makes H&M flourish. Now if the lyrics were in Finnish, then you'd get grannies writing to the church warden and ombudsmen. Grannies however don't watch "Wire" or "Oz" or "Shield" as much to be on the beat with the current jive.

Besides which one should be glad there is a shopping place to start with - I remember the time before H&M and the likes had made their landing...

[katertomater]

Well I refuse to believe that Finland is the home of attacking people based on their nationality.

It doesn't have to be wishful thinking, that's the point of making your voice heard instead of just sitting at your computer making sarcastic comments and putting people down.

It's not about the music, it's about the choices of company. Do you want your children exposed to an environment like that? Parents can control the media their children are exposed to, that's their responsiblity, but we should not expect to hear EXPLICT music in a clothing store that opens its doors to families with young children.

[superiorinferior]

Well I refuse to believe that Finland is the home of attacking people based on their nationality.

No, I guess you're right. That home would be the United States.

Do you want your children exposed to an environment like that? Parents can control the media their children are exposed to, that's their responsiblity, but we should not expect to hear EXPLICT music in a clothing store that opens its doors to families with young children.

Are you talking about H&M Kids store or the one for adults and young adults?

[dave071061]

Well I refuse to believe that Finland is the home of attacking people based on their nationality.

You're not being attacked on the basis of your nationality but on the basis of your comments

And the short answer is, if you don't like the music they play then don't shop there, and if enough people feel the same way as you do then their profits will suffer and they will change their policy.

[katertomater]

Yes, I was attacked on based on the fact that I am American

"It is *your* cultural imperialist product. One minute people complain you can't American this nor American that - then people complain they are playing American music. Stop complaining - its exactly what you were asking for..."

Regardless,

The purpose of my posting was to bring this issue to the attention of other concerned people with children living in Finland. And I don't feel this is a valid reason for attacking me either.

[Hank W.]

Well I refuse to believe that Finland is the home of attacking people based on their nationality.

You started it. It wasn't Finnish music they were playing. So why is it Finland's fault? H&M isn't a Finnish company, so why is it Finland's fault? Its not Finnish people who invented this s**t, f**k, and the n-word "music" style. So why is it Finland's fault? Go complain about foreign music played in foreign companies to... well... the foreign people who do the music, own the music industry and these companies. Archbishop of Sweden would be a good ear, AFAIK the Church of Sweden owns a wad of H&M stock.

It doesn't have to be wishful thinking, that's the point of making your voice heard instead of just sitting at your computer making sarcastic comments and putting people down.

I think SupInf up there said something to the lines "you can, but by all probability it won't have much effect". Now its all fine trying if it makes you feel good, but really nobody in the upper echelons gives a damn, they think of corrupting the parents' wallets vs. corrupting the youth.

it's about the choices of company.

Is there a choice of company? If there is, you're lucky. However most probably its the products of the competing some little girls sowing the garnments side by side and sleeping ten to a concrete room in some faraway country - even if you are having a choice of company.

we should not expect to hear EXPLICT music in a clothing store that opens its doors to families with young children.

I'd actually prefer hearing explicit music all day if that meant I wouldn't have to listen to it at home, but the neighbours' little angels haven't had their mouth washed with pinesol in a good while. Its in Finnish mostly though, fortunately as they really should get some more practice in English, as Kasimir pointed out its not their native language and they have the most appalling grammar at times.

[Hank W.]

Are you talking about H&M Kids store or the one for adults and young adults?

I think the smaller ones have the stuff all packed together - I haven't seen a "separate" HM Kids except maybe a few in the GHA.

[Hank W.]

Yes, you DID attack me based on the fact that I am American"

Oooh, how tragic, another American egobubble bursting. See it fly like a B-52, pregnant chaff fluttering down...

Maybe you should read between the lines of that post a few times. Hint : Welcome to Finland.

BTW - if anyone shops at H&M the attack on their fashion sense is far over anything that can be achieved on the net As they've got Madonna as their lead now - now I *do* wonder why they are playing some explicit gangsta tunes instead of some flaky disco? Or did they just have the radio on?

[Desundial]

Hmmm...I find it interesting that while it is said many, many times on this forum that it is supposed to be a supportive place for people to air their views, so many threads devolve into people attacking each other when they do. Or perhaps we've all tick wired against criticism.

To get back to katertomater-'s original concern, if the music does bother you, I suggest the most constructive thing is to address your complaints straight to the top. Unfortunately the local shop clerks generally do not have customer service finesse or the common sense just to say, "I'm sorry, I'll forward your concerns to my manager." And she probably took the criticism personally as an attack by a foreigner on her nation's decency or some such doodle.

So, draft your letter and email to:

Stefan Persson , H&M HQ, Stockholm. "Heads Swedish retailer Hennes & Mauritz, founded by his father, Erling, in 1947. The $8.2 billion (sales) chain now has over 1,000 stores in 22 countries... Takes his position as a founding member of the Mentor Foundation, a nonprofit that combats substance abuse among youths, very seriously, as supermodel Kate Moss recently found out: he cancelled her H&M modeling contract, reportedly worth more than $1 million, after photographs of her allegedly snorting cocaine surfaced." (http://www.forbes.com)

It might be useful to point out to Mr. Persson that most of the gangster rap commonly played is not just full of references to bad words but rich in references to and glorification of american drug culture. Certainly that is counter to H&M kid's stores, which are aimed at pulling in mom and dad and their money. (Would say the teen stores are a different matter!)

OK, sure, in the nordic countries the kids pick up these words everywhere, and use them like candy because they think it's hip, that doesn't mean they don't know what they mean (If they didn't have impact they wouldn't be "hip"), nor that one shouldn't be allowed to be sensitive to the meaning of these words. It's not like the songs are in a language no one understands.