questions from an american & cuban...

[kitty wonka]

hello, everyone:

greetings & happy new year!

i'm new to this forum and very pleased that i have found it. it looks increasingly likely that my fiance and i will be relocating to helsinki in the near future. he is cuban; and i am american, but we currently live, just to completely confuse everyone a little bit more, in moscow.

i have so many questions at the moment, and well...i'm anxious to get things sorted. so, in advance, i'd just like to say thanks to all for providing whatever information they can.

we are currently awaiting the outcome of his visa application. contrary to information that we found on 'procedures' for gaining residence/work permits, the company has chosen to support his application for a 1-yr ME visa to finland. in the letter that accompanies his application, they state that they will be applying for and securing all of the necessary paperwork once he arrives. is this standard? or, does anyone have an opinion on the outcome of his visa application? our primary concern is that b/c he is a cuban passport holder, although a bonafide exile, he will not be granted a visa in the first instance. if this were to happen, does anyone know the likelihood that his subsequent application for a residence / work permit would be denied? or, as i've noticed from other threads, if they deny him a visa b/c they feel he should apply for a residence / work permit first, the outcome of the former does not affect the latter?

secondly, when he applies for residence/work permit, how likely is it that i can be included in his application given that we a) are engaged and have been for more than 1.5 years; and b) we currently cohabitate? i've noticed that the finns have included 'cohabitant' in the marital status section of the residence permit application. i'm self-employed, and largely work from home, which i will of course declare with the approprite authorities, but i'm a bit concerned about my application being rejected since i'm a) not an EU citizen; and b) not being invited by a company to come to finland.

i have many other questions regarding housing, etc. but, these are the primary concerns that we have now.

thanks in advance for any and/all info! and, a very happy new year to all!

[Jukka Suomi]

Welcome! You have some Cuban Cigars?

[kitty wonka]

Welcome! You have some Cuban Cigars?

not on me at the moment, but we could probably scrounge up a few...

[sinikettu]

My first suggestion is that you edit the tittle of your post so that attracts the attention of one of our immigration experts who might not bother to open a thread wishing the compliments of the season.
Thank you and same to you by the way.

I summary you are not a EU citizen..and will need a visa.
Your BF is not so he wil also need a visa.
You are not married and are of different nationalities so will be treated as seperate cases.
Finland has no axe to grind with Cuba (unlike the USA) so your BF will be treated just like any other non EU citizen.

I am not an immigration expert.
But as I understand the situation to enter Finland you both, as non eu citizens need a visa.
It can be a tourist visa that is valid for 3 months only.
For a residents visa you need a work permit.

Now come the tricky bit where an expert is needed.

Can you apply for that work permit after arriving here on a tourist visa ..or shoud your BF's employer sort that out before you come, so that you can pass through pasport control with no problems?

I suggest you send a PM to this expert.

bb/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=4742

[Hank W.]

as i've noticed from other threads, if they deny him a visa b/c they feel he should apply for a residence / work permit first, the outcome of the former does not affect the latter?

Well atleast then the 6 months you need to get your "2 years cohabiting" rule fulfilled will have passed. I don't know if the company has previous experience and is secure they can pull the "exceptional circumstances" out of their hat or the company had a "think" it would be faster somehow if applied in Finland Maybe your hubby will get a season ticket on the Tolstoy, but in any case I wouldn't say the home lease off before all the papers are stamped. As you know the general attitude of the UVI is they don't want to have the people loitering here the time it takes for them to twiddle their thumbs (and all the fuss after they say no). But I guess you've figured out so much. Hopefully you guys don't get too much of a run around.

[Hank W.]

Can you apply for that work permit after arriving here on a tourist visa

As I've said before its a free world so people can apply the moon off the sky. And stay 4 months and get a "no" as an answer and then they can come here and whine UVI is stupid. They could also read the UVI rules and realize they can not get a residence permit (unless its under the blue moon) as Finland is very much opposed to the "pop over and stay" ideology. They have a "pop over, have your employer apply, go home to wait" ideology. Now it is changing - it used to be like that for married people a few years back - and as Daryl has pointed out there is legislation and then there is practice that conflict each other. But trying to get UVI budge in good humors better do it as they want it to be done and not have a "think" in between.

[kitty wonka]

thanks much for the replies thus far...

AFAIK, i do not need a visa in the first instance, since i'm a US citizen and passport holder. at least not until i move there permanently. for the time-being, and b/c this is all a bit sudden to say the least, i am planning on going back and forth to finland from moscow for the next few months (more than likely, until we get moved). initially, i'd come over for a week or two to look at places to live. and then back and forth for longer until we wrap up things here and are moved.

re: his future employer, i suspect that they have done this in the past -- that is, there is a former colleague of my fiance's who has just been hired and is already in finland. he is russian, however; not cuban. from what i know, he entered on an M/E visa, and they are applying for his paperwork now. at least that is what we have been told this week.

i'm delighted to hear that finland's policy towards cuba is more sane than that of the US. but that's a whole other kettle of fish!

[Hank W.]

re: his future employer, i suspect that they have done this in the past -- that is, there is a former colleague of my fiance's who has just been hired and is already in finland. he is russian, however; not cuban. from what i know, he entered on an M/E visa, and they are applying for his paperwork now. at least that is what we have been told this week.

Ok, so "is applying" vs. "stamp in passport" as in "no extracurricular BS" is the key issue here. If they have it all figured out then it should really be not that much different of an approach.

You just need to qualify for the 2-years-cohabiting rule (be inventive, after all he's not officially moving from Moscow until he gets his paperwork done here). Small things, remember the "right answer" principle.

[kitty wonka]

You just need to qualify for the 2-years-cohabiting rule (be inventive, after all he's not officially moving from Moscow until he gets his paperwork done here). Small things, remember the "right answer" principle.

we're moving from moscow, where we have been based 6 and 7 years, respectively. we are well familiar with 'creativity';)

thanks much!

[sinikettu]

thanks much for the replies thus far...

AFAIK, i do not need a visa in the first instance, since i'm a US citizen and passport holder. !

You can come for 3 months as tourist..
But Not sure what happens after that...

[sy]

I don't understand why the company chose only to support his 1 year multiple-entry visa (I guess by ME you mean multiple-entry) if the company intends to hire him on a permanent basis and you both want to move to live here in Finland. By a visa, he can't work and get paid here. And I think by a multiple-entry visa, a foreigner can stay in Finland up to 3 months in any 6-month period. Unless if the company just wants to invite him for an interview or for some other activities, then the visa application sounds more logical.

However if you both want to move to live in Finland, based on your fiance's employment, then he needs to apply for the employee's residence permit in the Finnish embassy and you need to apply for the residence permit based your cohabitation. Alternatively his employer can submit the application for him in Finland on his behalf.

[kitty wonka]

I don't understand why the company chose only to support his 1 year multiple-entry visa (I guess by ME you mean multiple-entry) if the company intends to hire him on a permanent basis and you both want to move to live here in Finland. By a visa, he can't work and get paid here. And I think by a multiple-entry visa, a foreigner can stay in Finland up to 3 months in any 6-month period. Unless if the company just wants to invite him for an interview or for some other activities, then the visa application sounds more logical.

yeah, i don't necessarily understand why they are doing it this way either, and why to a certain extent, alarm bells are souding in my head. i think, they are mostly concerned about the time it might take to get things sorted. and the added murkiness of us both being in a third country -- e.g., not our homelands, respectively.

the letter that they issued to accompany his visa application states that he will have all expenses paid initially, and a contract (with job title, etc) will be formulated and provided. all of which will accompany his application for work/residence permit. i know they are anxious to get him there (we got the phone call i believe on the 26th), but...it just seems a strange way to go about it from what i've read.

However if you both want to move to live in Finland, based on your fiance's employment, then he needs to apply for the employee's residence permit in the Finnish embassy and you need to apply for the residence permit based your cohabitation. Alternatively his employer can submit the application for him in Finland on his behalf.

AFAIK, they are planning on submitting the application on his behalf once he gets there. other than me applying under the cohabitation clause, i'm not entirely sure how this affects me. and more specifically, if i should be applying from there or here (here being moscow)?

both of of us have become accustomed to shades of grey when it comes to things like visas, work permits and the like after living here for so long. and whilst it may be a right pain, it is quite easy to 'get around'. but, we are keen to do things correctly and properly and avoid any refusals or problems b/c we haven't done things correctly. he is all for following what his employer says. i'd rather have as much info as possible.

[sy]

Then again even if he gets the visa and comes to Finland quickly, in principle he still can't start to work for the company!

The right way to do is to apply for the employee's residence permit now immediately, either by your fiance himself to the Finnish embassy, or by the employer on behalf of your fiance in Finland. If the officers of Finnish embassy are competent, they should reject the visa application and suggest to your fiance to apply for the residence permit instead.

For you, once your fiance's applicaton for the residence permit is submitted, you submit your application for the residence permit based on the cohabitation to the Finnish embassy in Moscow. Meanwhile you can still enter Finland by the visa-free agreement for 3 months in 6-month period in Schengen area.

BTW, it doesn't matter where you both live. What matters now is your passports.

[Hank W.]

Then again even if he gets the visa and comes to Finland quickly, in principle he still can't start to work for the company!

Yeah, it sounds like the employer is saying "hey, we're employing an illegal alien".. though of course theres a few loopholes in there as an "expert on 3 month contract" and somesuch... but working without a residence permit is grounds for refusing a residence permit

I think the situation will change once they get the battle over whether its the ministry of labor or interior who decides who runs the show here; but currently the chance of someone pulling that kind of off is... hmmm... interesting.

[kitty wonka]

just wanted to give a great big 'thanks' to all for their insight. essentially, we have gone back and forth with the company and have decided to go for the residence/work permit route in the first instance, rather than jeopardise my fiance's application and/or the company's standing by working around the process. hopefully, it won't take too long. but, we shall see.

anyway...thanks to all for your advice/thoughts!