US great-great grandfather qualify for Dual Citizenship?

alecia · Post by **alecia** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:44 am

Is it possible to gain Citizenship by Descent through a great-great grandfather? He migrated to the USA, had children here and now I, as a 26 yr old, am wondering if I could get dual citizenship.

I see that they amended the law (till 2008) about parents but does this lineage work for me?

Any help would be tremendous! Thanks,
A.

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E-A · Post by **E-A** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:58 am

I dont think that you can gain finnish citizenship by declaration,as one can gain citizenship by declaration only if one has held it before, or if ones parents are finnish citizens.

I dont know how US handels the dual citizenship (do they view it as renouncing you citizenship if accuire one of foreign county?), but in Finland if you can gain finnish nationality you dont have to renounce your other citizenship.

http://www.uvi.fi/netcomm/content.asp?a ... anguage=EN
http://www.uvi.fi/netcomm/content.asp?path=8,2477,2549
http://www.uvi.fi/netcomm/content.asp?path=8,2477,2553

My mother was born in Finland, but my grandparents lost their Finnish citizenship before my mother was born, as they acquired citizenship of a foreign country. My mother has lived abroad since she was four years old. Was my mother ever a Finnish citizen? If so, can she regain her citizenship, and can I too acquire Finnish citizenship?

Your mother has never been a Finnish citizen, as her parents were not Finnish citizens when she was born. Your mother can acquire Finnish citizenship by declaration based on your grandparents' former Finnish citizenship. The declaration has to be initiated by 31 May 2008 at the latest. If neither of your parents was a Finnish citizen, you cannot gain Finnish citizenship by declaration.

mrshourula · Post by **mrshourula** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:18 am

So does it follow then that if one of the parents obtained citizenship by declaration then a child (even an adult child) could then make a declaration by virtue of being a descendant of a citizen?

I've never seen this specifically answered but the vagueness of the language of the law (at least in translation to English) makes it seem possible.

mrshourula · Post by **mrshourula** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:30 am

E-A wrote: I dont know how US handels the dual citizenship (do they view it as renouncing you citizenship if accuire one of foreign county?), but in Finland if you can gain finnish nationality you dont have to renounce your other citizenship..

It indeed used to be the case in the US that you couldn't hold dual citizenship (except in certain cases if you had dual citizenship from birth or childhood, in which case some Supreme Court rulings -- Perkins v. Elg (1939), Mandoli v. Acheson (1952), and Kawakita v. U.S. (1952) -- permitted you to keep both). However, most of the laws forbidding dual citizenship were struck down by the US Supreme Court in two cases: a 1967 decision, Afroyim v. Rusk, as well as a second ruling in 1980, Vance v. Terrazas.

Rules against dual citizenship still apply to some extent -- at least in theory -- to people who wish to become US citizens via naturalization. The Supreme Court chose to leave in place the requirement that new citizens must renounce their old citizenship during US naturalization. However, in practice, the State Department is no longer doing anything in the vast majority of situations where a new citizen's "old country" refuses to recognize the US renunciation and continues to consider the person's original citizenship to be in effect.

The official US State Department policy on dual citizenship today is that the United States does not favor it as a matter of policy because of various problems they feel it may cause, but the existence of dual citizenship is recognized (i.e., accepted) as a fact of life. That is, if you ask them if you ought to become a dual citizen, they will recommend against doing it; but if you tell them you are a dual citizen, they'll almost always say it's OK.

mrshourula · Post by **mrshourula** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:42 am

alecia wrote:Is it possible to gain Citizenship by Descent through a great-great grandfather? He migrated to the USA, had children here and now I, as a 26 yr old, am wondering if I could get dual citizenship.

.

From what I've read (and I am limited to documents translated into English) you wouldn't be eligible under the provision in the new Nationality Act because the chain of descent from Finnish citizen (a requirement) was broken at the birth of your grandparents in the USA.

Mumintroll · Post by **Mumintroll** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:34 am

No Alicia, you are not entitled to make a declaration according to the way I understand it. Everything in the Swedish and English versions of the Immigration Directorate suggests this.

Essentially, your grandparents would be/have been eligible (assuming that they were not born as Finnish citizens but USA citizens), but not your parents or you.

alecia · Post by **alecia** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:41 pm

Thanks to everyone who has replied! Okay, so if my grandparents applied for citizenship (since they have been/are eligible), could then my father apply as well..and once he has dual, then me? Or does it ONLY apply to the direct children of the great-great grandfather who was from Finland?

Do you kinda see what I'm poking at? I'm kinda saying that once my grandparents GOT IT, then would my father be eligible?

I have a feeling the answer is no. That is just stops at them.

You have all been helpful! Thanks!

Mumintroll · Post by **Mumintroll** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:53 pm

I don't think so, but I am not 100% sure. If you want to find out for sure, the easiest way is to contact UVI, the Directorate of Immigration. Their website is at http://www.uvi.fi and has contact details on it.

You could also contact your nearest Finnish diplomatic mission, but in citizenship declaration matters they do only act as a "middle man" for UVI in Helsinki which actually does all the processing. However, I am sure they can answer your question at it is probably straight forward based on the criteria which they must know. There are Finnish missions in Washington, New York and Los Angeles in USA, so why not try to contact one of those. There are addresses and telephone numbers are on the Foreign Ministry website: http://formin.finland.fi/public/default ... ntentlan=3
(just click the city name for the contact details).

mrshourula · Post by **mrshourula** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:10 pm

I agree with Mumintroll that it is at least worth posing the question to someone at either the Embassy of Finland or one of the Consulates. When I was doing the paperwork for my husband and children they were very quick to reply to my questions (I was emailing the Finnish Consulate in Los Angeles).

I've read almost everything I could find translated into English on the subject and I have not seen your specific question asked and answered.
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From the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for Finland Web site:

http://formin.finland.fi/public/default ... ture=en-US

Before the birth of my mother, her originally Finnish parents (my grandparents) obtained US nationality. My mother was born in Finland but moved permanently to the United States with her family when she was four. Does this mean that my mother has never been a Finnish citizen?

Your mother has never been a Finnish citizen because her parents were not Finnish citizens when your mother was born. However, as your grandparents were Finnish citizens, your mother can obtain Finnish citizenship if she wants to and if she makes a declaration. Even if your grandparents had died, it would still be possible for your mother to obtain Finnish citizenship.

If the act on dual citizenship applies to former Finnish citizens and only second generation descendants, how does it affect me, as I am a third generation American Finn?

If neither of your parents has been a Finnish citizen, you cannot obtain Finnish citizenship by declaration.

Can I obtain Finnish citizenship by declaration, as my grandmother was a Finnish citizen, but lost her citizenship on acquiring U.S. citizenship? My father is a U.S. citizen. I live in the United States and I am 35 years of age.

Unfortunately you cannot obtain Finnish citizenship by declaration.

alecia · Post by **alecia** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:09 am

Again thank you for you diligence- I will look at those links right away and update you if they say yes!

Best to all of you!

smilesalot · Post by **smilesalot** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:39 am

My grandparents were Finnish Citizens, and my Mother and I both applied for and recieved citizenship at the same time. If that helps any, yes as mrshuorula suggested contact the consulate and they can tell you wether thats possible or not.

smilesalot

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