Survey on Immigration: Results word differently???

network_engineer · Post by **network_engineer** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:16 pm

Hi all,

Do take a look at these articles (links underneath). Are they speaking about the same survey? If so, the results seem to be worded differently - very differently. IMVHO, the way they have been worded can steer the thoughts in different directions, especially the headings.

Link to the article in Helsinki Sanomat (English verson)

Link to the article in Finnish News Agency STT (English verson)

Comments or views?

Kind regards.

**Sponsor:**

EP · Post by EP » Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:38 pm

Yes, it is the same survey. And sure, wording steers people´s thoughts.

otyikondo · Post by **otyikondo** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:50 pm

Just to confuse you further...

Hesari's headline on A3 (the headlines page) is:

Yli puolet suomalaisista haluaa lisää maahanmuuttajia

while NYT (where the survey is physically located) runs a cover containing the words:

JO RIITTÄÄ, and refers to the nearly 40% who say "No".

HS in English directly reflects the print newspaper's headline, but also explores some of the findings from NYT.

flyingyellowpig · Post by **flyingyellowpig** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:13 am

I think there are many mixed views about foreigners in this country.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:40 am

Oh, now we shall have a masterpiece; A letter to king Manuel about finding Finland:

So, tell me how is it better for the economy? And we should take - you mean we kidnap people off the streets in some foreign country and bring them here? What does the economy do with these people, soylent green? Where do the 28000 unemployed immigrants currently in the country fit into this?

And how is it better culturally? Whose culture are we talking about? Do the Jesuits come and build us a shelter?

Rob A. · Post by **Rob A.** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:30 am

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:25 am

Well, there is a costant talk about "need for workers". However the "need" seems not to be there as the small companies do not just want a worker - they want someone who speaks Finnish. And of course the big industry capitalists wants a non-speaking exploitable underclass that will be cheap migrant labor. Whereas the socialists fear that the non-speaking underclass will do work cheaper, even illegally, and this crush the welfare state system. They see the non-speaker living next door and not doing a days work, putting his hand in their pot of drinking money.

And the poor immigrant is caught in all this and wonders what the heck is going on as he would work if someone gave him a job... catch-22...

No, I don't think the Finns will start smiling out of a goverment decree either, unless they scrap the alcohol and car taxes simultaneously...

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:44 am

There is also this issue....

http://www.yle.fi/news/id54680.html

ie: the fact that the FFL (Finnish foreign language) teaching is not up to scratch. Not much thought is put into class sizes, mix, needs analysis, materials etc etc. Many of us have been on FFL or Swedish courses at some point and would probably agree that a lot could be done to improve them (eg more emphasis on communication rather than grammatical accuracy). I think employers should be able to get 100% tax break on all foreign language tuition for their foreign employees.... And foreigners should be able to deduct language tuition fees from their tax (if they are working) or get 50% sponsorship from the state (if they are not working) including on private ly run (but "certified") courses. The queues are too long for the Employment Office courses and they are not suited to everybody anyway.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:41 am

+ which:

- to get onto an Employment office course you need a ID number
- to get an ID number you get a job
- to get a job you need to speak Finnish

Who do they think they are fooling?

SaxonManFinland · Post by **SaxonManFinland** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:40 pm

What an awfull lot of common sense spoken above !!!!!

Really depends on where you live in this frozen waste........but by and large the older generations and working classes dislike all foreigners, and the wealthy lot, in line with government direction just want to exploit them. They exploit their own people and so it is quite natural. Finnish companies make the HIGHEST profits world wide (as % of turnover) and pay low wages, employ thousands of unpaid students who must work for months per year year for nowt. Examples are bars, restaurants and hotles who locally admit to using 75% FREE Labour, this includes students, immegants who must work or lose benifits etc, etc. Its their system, sucks in my opinion but thats the way it is !!!

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:15 pm

SaxonManFinland wrote:but by and large the older generations and working classes dislike all foreigners, and the wealthy lot, in line with government direction just want to exploit them.

I think that applies to any country in Western Europe.

There was a striking eye-opener last night on YLE teema about Sri Lankan maids in Lebanon. A Lebanese/Swedish co-production. They interviewed quite a few people, the job agents, people who employ maids, maids and then a local priest. Somehow I was thinking "same s*t different package", and also "I am so glad we do not employ domestic servants in Finland". I don't want to have maids dropping on me jumping from windows as they do there out of desperation, so not giving people who cannot understand the language also prevents the exploitation of such workers. So is not giving a job or not taking you in to a s*hole you think is a paradise racism and xenophobia or actually a favor? Food for thought.

Karhunkoski · Post by **Karhunkoski** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:16 pm

SaxonManFinland wrote: Finnish companies make the HIGHEST profits world wide (as % of turnover)

This point of yours interested me and I would love you to back it up with some data.

The only sector for which I've heard any relaible financial data is supermarkets:

UK Supermarkets profit margin = 40-60%

Finnish supermarkets profit margin = around 20-25%

otyikondo · Post by **otyikondo** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:03 pm

Oh well, never mind, eh? With a bit of luck Kokoomus will get in and this cheeky chappie can be our next Minister of the Interior, and everything in the garden will be lovely.

EP · Post by EP » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:51 pm

i didn´t know there are Somalis in Alahärmä municipal council.

Karibu · Post by **Karibu** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:04 pm

network_engineer wrote:Hi all,

Do take a look at these articles (links underneath). Are they speaking about the same survey? If so, the results seem to be worded differently - very differently. IMVHO, the way they have been worded can steer the thoughts in different directions, especially the headings.

Link to the article in Helsinki Sanomat (English verson)

Link to the article in Finnish News Agency STT (English verson)

Comments or views?

Kind regards.

I have one comment. I would understand this questions "Should Finland take more immigrants per year than today?". However, the question was "should Finland take more immigrants?", effectively meaning "Should Finland take at least one more immigrant in addition to those who are in the country already?". I believe that even hard line patriots and xenophobic people would not stop the trade cut contacts to outer world by banning all other incoming people (including businessmen, scientists, artists, specialists, etc.) except tourists, so the question is absolutely meaningless.

By forming question in right way, you can make xenophobic redneck to sound like a cosmopolitan or reasonable "selective immigration" -person a xenophobic redneck. Exact forming of the question is essential for right interpretation of the survey.

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