Moving to Finland / Order of things to do ?

[cybertiger]

Been reading much more......

1) Get a bank account
2) Get an accountant
3) File notification of a business startup (no permit required for EEA residents, though photocopy of passport is required if you do not have a finnish id number) (takes 1 week)
4) Wait 2 months (You need company accounts to show the police to prove you're making a living as a capitalist pig).
5) Goto poliisi with accounts showing you're earning/paying taxes, complying with the laws regarding conducting a business in finland.
6) Wait for verdict, and pray they don't kick you out of the country.
7) It'd be nice to have a plan B.

I do wonder if I have to charge VAT on services rendered to yankland, it's not a killer, but it would help my budgetting to know this before a substantial proportion of my earnings ends up in the taxman's pocket.

I'll inquire about this tomorrow, but if anyone happens to know about VAT / consultancy to a non EU country I'd would be extremely grateful.

I realise I'm quite screwed given I probably don't fit into one of the neat little boxes the police have for EU immigrants, and EU law seems mainly concerned with employees or large businesses not entrepreneurs when it comes to your right to reside / do business in other EU states.

I was aware that finnish taxes operate a prepayment system (not a lot of fun, but can't be helped).

Help and comments always appreciated, no matter how sarcastic or bleak

If anyone can suggest any sensible plan Bs which don't result in the police telling me to piss off (as Hank would put it), there are far too many ifs/maybes in this, and having an application turned down after 5 months resident in finland would be far worse than being told to go away before even entering the country.

[Hank W.]

Order of things to do ?

1. Heated blondinism
2. Frevorous exitement.
3. Blatant optimism.
4. Meter of snow.

[sinikettu]

Been reading much more......

1) Get a bank account
2) Get an accountant
3) File notification of a business startup (no permit required for EEA residents, though photocopy of passport is required if you do not have a finnish id number) (takes 1 week)
4) Wait 2 months (You need company accounts to show the police to prove you're making a living as a capitalist pig).
5) Goto poliisi with accounts showing you're earning/paying taxes, complying with the laws regarding conducting a business in finland.
6) Wait for verdict, and pray they don't kick you out of the country.
7) It'd be nice to have a plan B.

Firstly as you are an EU citizen...unless you commit a crime...point 6...No need to pray they cannot kick you out...

Plan B would be to get a job or at least a piece of paper that looks like a contract of employment...
Perhaps "your accountant" (SO's mother) could....ahem employ you for long enough to satisfy the immigration authorities.....
One other point where will you be living?...attitude/flexability at police immigration offices tend to improve once you are out-side Ring 1/Helsinki.
I had no problems with Vantaa Police...they were even quite chatty and friendly...But I did have a genuine contract of employment.

[cybertiger]

Hank, you missed something out:

5) Goto pub quiz, drink beer

I don't really do the optimism thing, maybe a finnish trait ?

Sinikettu:

Getting a job is out of the question when you're contracted for 40 hours a week to someone already.

On the subject of getting a bank account I have to go into the city next week, it might be interesting to pop into a finnish bank branch (Nordea at least have a UK branch in the city) and open an account. Amazing how helpful people can be when they are under the impression they will be receiving large amounts of business from you. Maybe they could even advise me about my VAT question.

I may get a real accountant, apparently the SO's mum wouldn't want to accept money from me, and the difference between being self employed in the UK and in Finland is massive. [Like having to be VAT registered even with a relatively small turnover]. Though she has offered to teach me how to do my own accounts.

My employer will die of shock when he receives an invoice from me including a VAT number, registered business number, etc etc, this is not how it's done in the UK

I will be living with the SO, so presumably that will count towards the police granting right to reside.

Sorry for spamming my own thread, maybe it'll be useful for the next capitalist pig that falls in love with a finn and has the same rather interesting problems when it comes to moving him/herself to finland along with his or her business.

-CT

[sarahh]

Hi All,

I don't know if this is unusual, but from the number of posts I've seen about it, maybe it was. My partner lives in Finland (he is Finnish), and I visit him as often as possible, but haven't moved there yet (in a few years ). Nordea gave me a bank account with no residency permit, no job in Finland and almost no documentation other than my US passport. They send me statements in English to my US address. I had absolutely NO problems at all opening the account.

So is this unusual?

(I feel like a real expat now )

Sarahh

[Hank W.]

Banks love you allright, they "get in" your monies. Its when you go to the places that give out, then its a 'piss off' multiplicity

About that "being self-employed" I'll quote a friend:

My advice: NEVER, EVER start a business in Finland. The tax office will tax you for the rest of your life, and bigtime. Seriously, if you want a profitable business, start-up in Estonia, or UK or Mozambique, just don't do it in Finland.

He's shelved his company; and actually is the author of the "business in Finland" sticky. He should have done it in Sweden and *then* talk

There is a "fact of life" here, my silly sis and me electric nephew who are vocational school chavs dream and aspire of having a business; however I who have a BBA tell them to "piss off" with the idea...

Some yankee or even irish bint, south mericas even better (anywhere palm trees grow), come nab me nob and I'll be a businessman. If your daddy runs a hotel and wants someone to take over the business even better, I have the expertese for that. (Front desk is for the missus - Imagine Farty Owls). Here it is a meter of snow, and no blow...

[Londonchris]

Hank soon to be known as Hank The WA*K.
As much decent info as you give you also like to be a little bit of an arse "o" .
I have done the hard slog of deciding wether to buy a packet of sausages for the weekend or a pack of baccy (baccy won)
But now i smoke very infrequently and have grown a business from scratch, until now i need assistance for sales.

The tax system is a sh*t , but never shall a decent business mind be beaten.
I sense abit of jealousness that someone has to actually go to "WORK"?
and that asomeone from a foreign land can do better than a local in a space of 4 years?
Whats that word? "Only fools & horses work"

[cybertiger]

Londonchris, could ya keep the personal stuff off the thread, not really the place for it. Aside from that I suspect it's water off a ducks back for Hank.

From my perspective, Hank's been quite useful, and I don't give two sh*ts about being called a crazy foreigner for trying to do something most finns wouldn't attempt when it's delivered with useful pieces of information

[Hank W.]

I sense abit of jealousness that someone has to actually go to "WORK"?

Hullu töitä tekee, viisas pääsee vähemmällä

[Rob A.]

[Londonchris]

Yep,Hank can stand & speak for himself (at this hour?)
Anyway i mean well , and who said lazy?

"no-one ever said it was gonna be easy"

I like Hanks posts too but sometimes he gets abit peed off in the wrong places.

Kosky?

[Hank W.]

Ah, see now my outlook on life is that you take the worst case scenario as the baseline, so then you only get happy surprises. And any downslides are things just the way you expected them to be

Well, on business ideas, I tend to go through the same 10 steps we were taught on how to shoot the idea down so that we also saw to that we had gotten our idea fully thought out with all the variables.

Variables, now they are fun. Say for people coming from high-density areas, the "realization of Finland" is sometimes the hardest thing. Yes, the work of a travelling salesman is the same. Only that in the UK you drive 5 minutes and theres the next town with 50 people you can sell magic beans to.......in Finland its 5 minutes, 50 trees, 5 minutes, 50 trees, 5 minutes, 50 trees, mr. moose you want beans, 5 minutes, 50 trees...

So there might not be anything wrong with the business itself. Its just not working within the local framework. So while I'd be slightly amused over a chippie in downtown Helsinki, a carpet-laying man&van would get me into a bout of giggles...

[Londonchris]

Carpet laying man would have abit of trouble i agree though with the aid of a tape measure and sharp knife he may offer custom size and shaped rugs from his otherwise redundant carpet stock and make a killing
All about adapting your skills/products according to the market you can serve.