What is with this forum?!!!!!

[jason cowell]

I am in dire need of some consolation. I have been going out with my girlfriend for near on 4years now. I, in Ireland, she, Helsinki! I am truly and utterly blown away with the difficulty, nay, stubborness to welcome and accomodate foreigners into finnish society within this forum. I am very well eductaed and have worked successfully in my field for years, yet the phrase (usually from the ultra negative and anti-foreign poster HANK) "not without fluent and complete finnish language skills". What is the problem???? It amazes me that hard working people who are going to contribute to Finland are just dismissed and put on a negative road. This forum should actively encourage and develop links instead of driving wedges between "them" and "us". Think the rationale behind this forum is lost if all it does is discourage and generally take the piss out of people who are trying for what ever reason to live in Finland. Surely your sense of power would be best used to help and encourage us. I for one am getting kind of tired of the immature and unhelpful sarcastic comments thrown out. Get your act together guys.....

[interleukin]

So you would rather find out how things are once you are here and have burnt all your bridges?

[jason cowell]

So you would rather find out how things are once you are here and have burnt all your bridges?

No, its just the tone and the advice is so "we don't want outsiders coming in" to it. What is the purpose if not to invite and encourage. It is so damn negative and purist. 90% of posters are wanting english speaking jobs or searching for help to be integrated without finnish. Please tell me what work or what directions are given to help these people? I really don't see any..its "speak Finnish or don't come"!!! Is that the extent of the wisdom on this site? The hard work is helping is what I am saying, seeing what is actually been asked here and trying to find solutions. Most just give up and make them feel more distant. That is wrong. Yers the situation is tough, but shouldn't that be a trigger to work together and try and find creative solutions to what is being presented???

[mCowboy]

I am very well eductaed....

Classic

[jason cowell]

I am very well eductaed....

Classic

...and there it goes again. Cheers for the brilliant insight to the problem.

[sammy]

90% of posters are wanting english speaking jobs or searching for help to be integrated without finnish. Please tell me what work or what directions are given to help these people? I really don't see any..its "speak Finnish or don't come"!!! Is that the extent of the wisdom on this site?

Just out of curiosity, how would you -as someone who's working in addiction counselling if I'm correct - provide advice and wisdom to this person:

Keskiviikko
21.2.2007 klo 20.40 / larafine / Yleistä

Omituista miten paljon psyyke vaikuttaa siihen, millanen olo on myös fyysisesti. Ennen päivän uintitreenejä oli niin hiton vaikeeta taas! Näin unia liittyen aiheeseen ja koko aamun olikin sit muka niin paha olo: tuntu siltä, et reflat (=vieroitusoireet) olis tullu takasin ja kaikesta sai väännettyä kamaan liittyviä ajatuksia. Onneks ihmisen endorfiini vie tuollaiset paskat veks. Täytyy sanoa, ettei ihan näin pahaa päivää oo ollu ainakaan pariin viikkoon.

Kiitos paljon kaikille kommentteja lähettäneille; ette uskokaan miten hyvältä tuntuu lukea kannustavia kommentteja!!Viitaten nihamin kommenttin, niin kyllä riippuvuus kuin riippuvuus aiheuttaa samanlaisia fiiliksiä. Tupakoivat ja sen lopettaneet ovatkin yleensä niitä, jotka ymmärtävät tietyt fiilikset, joita koen. Totta kai muutkin, mutta sekin on tietynlaista vertaistukea. (ja niham, on vaan mukavaa tietää, että seuraat tekstejäni ja olet kiinnostunut!!)

Fiiliksistä vaikeneminen on mulle opetettu jo lapsena. Täytyy tässä yhteydessä kertoa, että itseasiassa asun tällä hetkellä 60v. mummini luona, joka oli holhoojani 13- vuotiaasta lähtien. Oma lapsuudenkotini.. no, en ole sen koommin ollut mutsin kanssa missään tekemisissä, joka mm.haukkui mut aina ihan lyttyyn, jos näytin fiilikseni suuntaan tai toiseen. Mummi taas on yrittänyt koko ajan saada mut avautumaan ja on siinä onnistunutkin jossain määrin. Ongelma ei ole näyttää miltä tuntuu, vaan kertoa miksi. Olen sitä terapiassa opetellut, ja onnekseni mulla on todella osaava, ymmärtäväinen ja ihana rautainen ammattilainen. Siinä vaan on se, että vaikka se helpottaakin käydä niitä jälkikäteenkin läpi, niin ei sitä aina muista tarkalleen mistä mikäkin lähti. Mut hiljaa hyvä tulee.

Tuntuu todella hyvältä, kun mummi on löytänyt rinnalleen nykyisen miesystävänsä. Mies sattuu olemaan hyvin perhekeskeinen, eikä ikinä ole katsonut mua alaspäin, vaikka tietää totuuden. Hän auttaa ja haluaa olla mukana, kun rakennan elämääni uusiksi. Sitäpaitsi, vaarin kuolemasta on jo 4 vuotta ja mummi on ansainnut kaiken onnen! Ja kun mies vielä sattuu olemaan noin kiva, niin..

Koen huonoa omaatuntoa, kun en ole kirjoittanut sille miehelleni sinne taloon. On kova ikävä ja olen aloittanut lukuisia kertoja, mut en jotenki jaksa alkaa sille purkaa kaikkea mitä tässä on tammikuun jälkeen tapahtunu. Huolestuu vielä! Toisaalta, viimeks ku oli perhetapaaminen, ni kerroin sille asioita, joiden takia päätin, etten vähään aikaan käy siellä ja yritän saada ajatukseni selviks. Pääpointti vaan sattui olemaan sellainen, et jos en kohta ala ilmoittelee itestäni, ni sitten se vasta huolestuukin!!!

I do not mean to ask you this in a "negative" manner. I'm just pointing out that the reality remains; no matter how helpful we'd try to be here on this English-language (sic!) forum, no matter how gladly we'd invite you here, the Suomi world out there is speaking Finnish. How to cope with that - that is the question, and yes, if this forum can help in the task, I'm glad for that - but all this won't change Finland into an English-speaking country.

Attitudes against "foreigners" are another matter altogether - I doubt that a forum like this can help very much in that particular task.

[mCowboy]

I am very well eductaed....

Classic

...and there it goes again. Cheers for the brilliant insight to the problem.

what's the problem? That there's only few jobs for non-Finnish speaker? We can't do anything about that. There's no point coming in here and thinking: "I speak English, surely there must be work for me". That happens only in 1% of the cases and that's what Hank is saying.

It's better for those people to be discouraged, yet prepared at home, then coming into Finland and then whining here how nothing works for them and no one helps them.

[jason cowell]

90% of posters are wanting english speaking jobs or searching for help to be integrated without finnish. Please tell me what work or what directions are given to help these people? I really don't see any..its "speak Finnish or don't come"!!! Is that the extent of the wisdom on this site?

Just out of curiosity, how would you -as someone who's working in addiction counselling if I'm correct - provide advice and wisdom to this person:

Keskiviikko
21.2.2007 klo 20.40 / larafine / Yleistä

Omituista miten paljon psyyke vaikuttaa siihen, millanen olo on myös fyysisesti. Ennen päivän uintitreenejä oli niin hiton vaikeeta taas! Näin unia liittyen aiheeseen ja koko aamun olikin sit muka niin paha olo: tuntu siltä, et reflat (=vieroitusoireet) olis tullu takasin ja kaikesta sai väännettyä kamaan liittyviä ajatuksia. Onneks ihmisen endorfiini vie tuollaiset paskat veks. Täytyy sanoa, ettei ihan näin pahaa päivää oo ollu ainakaan pariin viikkoon.

Kiitos paljon kaikille kommentteja lähettäneille; ette uskokaan miten hyvältä tuntuu lukea kannustavia kommentteja!!Viitaten nihamin kommenttin, niin kyllä riippuvuus kuin riippuvuus aiheuttaa samanlaisia fiiliksiä. Tupakoivat ja sen lopettaneet ovatkin yleensä niitä, jotka ymmärtävät tietyt fiilikset, joita koen. Totta kai muutkin, mutta sekin on tietynlaista vertaistukea. (ja niham, on vaan mukavaa tietää, että seuraat tekstejäni ja olet kiinnostunut!!)

Fiiliksistä vaikeneminen on mulle opetettu jo lapsena. Täytyy tässä yhteydessä kertoa, että itseasiassa asun tällä hetkellä 60v. mummini luona, joka oli holhoojani 13- vuotiaasta lähtien. Oma lapsuudenkotini.. no, en ole sen koommin ollut mutsin kanssa missään tekemisissä, joka mm.haukkui mut aina ihan lyttyyn, jos näytin fiilikseni suuntaan tai toiseen. Mummi taas on yrittänyt koko ajan saada mut avautumaan ja on siinä onnistunutkin jossain määrin. Ongelma ei ole näyttää miltä tuntuu, vaan kertoa miksi. Olen sitä terapiassa opetellut, ja onnekseni mulla on todella osaava, ymmärtäväinen ja ihana rautainen ammattilainen. Siinä vaan on se, että vaikka se helpottaakin käydä niitä jälkikäteenkin läpi, niin ei sitä aina muista tarkalleen mistä mikäkin lähti. Mut hiljaa hyvä tulee.

Tuntuu todella hyvältä, kun mummi on löytänyt rinnalleen nykyisen miesystävänsä. Mies sattuu olemaan hyvin perhekeskeinen, eikä ikinä ole katsonut mua alaspäin, vaikka tietää totuuden. Hän auttaa ja haluaa olla mukana, kun rakennan elämääni uusiksi. Sitäpaitsi, vaarin kuolemasta on jo 4 vuotta ja mummi on ansainnut kaiken onnen! Ja kun mies vielä sattuu olemaan noin kiva, niin..

Koen huonoa omaatuntoa, kun en ole kirjoittanut sille miehelleni sinne taloon. On kova ikävä ja olen aloittanut lukuisia kertoja, mut en jotenki jaksa alkaa sille purkaa kaikkea mitä tässä on tammikuun jälkeen tapahtunu. Huolestuu vielä! Toisaalta, viimeks ku oli perhetapaaminen, ni kerroin sille asioita, joiden takia päätin, etten vähään aikaan käy siellä ja yritän saada ajatukseni selviks. Pääpointti vaan sattui olemaan sellainen, et jos en kohta ala ilmoittelee itestäni, ni sitten se vasta huolestuukin!!!

I do not mean to ask you this in a "negative" manner. I'm just pointing out that the reality remains; no matter how helpful we'd try to be here on this English-language (sic!) forum, no matter how gladly we'd invite you here, the Suomi world out there is speaking Finnish. How to cope with that - that is the question, and yes, if this forum can help in the task, I'm glad for that - but all this won't change Finland into an English-speaking country.

Attitudes against "foreigners" are another matter altogether - I doubt that a forum like this can help very much in that particular task.

The question is, what can we do to help this person to (1) learn finnish, which i appreciate has been helpful to some extent. More importantly (2) what can we do, or assist the person to do tto come to Finland and do SOME kind of work, or programme or contact point for prospective employers, in order for the step down to be less harsh??? The question is not,as you put it, to change Finland into an english speaking country, but quite simly to help those many many posters who are english speaking and are qualified and are hardworking who just want to work and/or study..whilst OF COURSE learning Finnish or continue to learn it in order to fully integrate and live in Finland. It just seems that this obvious issue is not being addressed. And for the record, i doubt anyone is under any illusions that Finland is a Finish spaeking society

[jason cowell]

90% of posters are wanting english speaking jobs or searching for help to be integrated without finnish. Please tell me what work or what directions are given to help these people? I really don't see any..its "speak Finnish or don't come"!!! Is that the extent of the wisdom on this site?

Just out of curiosity, how would you -as someone who's working in addiction counselling if I'm correct - provide advice and wisdom to this person:

Keskiviikko
21.2.2007 klo 20.40 / larafine / Yleistä

Omituista miten paljon psyyke vaikuttaa siihen, millanen olo on myös fyysisesti. Ennen päivän uintitreenejä oli niin hiton vaikeeta taas! Näin unia liittyen aiheeseen ja koko aamun olikin sit muka niin paha olo: tuntu siltä, et reflat (=vieroitusoireet) olis tullu takasin ja kaikesta sai väännettyä kamaan liittyviä ajatuksia. Onneks ihmisen endorfiini vie tuollaiset paskat veks. Täytyy sanoa, ettei ihan näin pahaa päivää oo ollu ainakaan pariin viikkoon.

Kiitos paljon kaikille kommentteja lähettäneille; ette uskokaan miten hyvältä tuntuu lukea kannustavia kommentteja!!Viitaten nihamin kommenttin, niin kyllä riippuvuus kuin riippuvuus aiheuttaa samanlaisia fiiliksiä. Tupakoivat ja sen lopettaneet ovatkin yleensä niitä, jotka ymmärtävät tietyt fiilikset, joita koen. Totta kai muutkin, mutta sekin on tietynlaista vertaistukea. (ja niham, on vaan mukavaa tietää, että seuraat tekstejäni ja olet kiinnostunut!!)

Fiiliksistä vaikeneminen on mulle opetettu jo lapsena. Täytyy tässä yhteydessä kertoa, että itseasiassa asun tällä hetkellä 60v. mummini luona, joka oli holhoojani 13- vuotiaasta lähtien. Oma lapsuudenkotini.. no, en ole sen koommin ollut mutsin kanssa missään tekemisissä, joka mm.haukkui mut aina ihan lyttyyn, jos näytin fiilikseni suuntaan tai toiseen. Mummi taas on yrittänyt koko ajan saada mut avautumaan ja on siinä onnistunutkin jossain määrin. Ongelma ei ole näyttää miltä tuntuu, vaan kertoa miksi. Olen sitä terapiassa opetellut, ja onnekseni mulla on todella osaava, ymmärtäväinen ja ihana rautainen ammattilainen. Siinä vaan on se, että vaikka se helpottaakin käydä niitä jälkikäteenkin läpi, niin ei sitä aina muista tarkalleen mistä mikäkin lähti. Mut hiljaa hyvä tulee.

Tuntuu todella hyvältä, kun mummi on löytänyt rinnalleen nykyisen miesystävänsä. Mies sattuu olemaan hyvin perhekeskeinen, eikä ikinä ole katsonut mua alaspäin, vaikka tietää totuuden. Hän auttaa ja haluaa olla mukana, kun rakennan elämääni uusiksi. Sitäpaitsi, vaarin kuolemasta on jo 4 vuotta ja mummi on ansainnut kaiken onnen! Ja kun mies vielä sattuu olemaan noin kiva, niin..

Koen huonoa omaatuntoa, kun en ole kirjoittanut sille miehelleni sinne taloon. On kova ikävä ja olen aloittanut lukuisia kertoja, mut en jotenki jaksa alkaa sille purkaa kaikkea mitä tässä on tammikuun jälkeen tapahtunu. Huolestuu vielä! Toisaalta, viimeks ku oli perhetapaaminen, ni kerroin sille asioita, joiden takia päätin, etten vähään aikaan käy siellä ja yritän saada ajatukseni selviks. Pääpointti vaan sattui olemaan sellainen, et jos en kohta ala ilmoittelee itestäni, ni sitten se vasta huolestuukin!!!

I do not mean to ask you this in a "negative" manner. I'm just pointing out that the reality remains; no matter how helpful we'd try to be here on this English-language (sic!) forum, no matter how gladly we'd invite you here, the Suomi world out there is speaking Finnish. How to cope with that - that is the question, and yes, if this forum can help in the task, I'm glad for that - but all this won't change Finland into an English-speaking country.

Attitudes against "foreigners" are another matter altogether - I doubt that a forum like this can help very much in that particular task.

The question is, what can we do to help this person to (1) learn finnish, which i appreciate has been helpful to some extent. More importantly (2) what can we do, or assist the person to do tto come to Finland and do SOME kind of work, or programme or contact point for prospective employers, in order for the step down to be less harsh??? The question is not,as you put it, to change Finland into an english speaking country, but quite simly to help those many many posters who are english speaking and are qualified and are hardworking who just want to work and/or study..whilst OF COURSE learning Finnish or continue to learn it in order to fully integrate and live in Finland. It just seems that this obvious issue is not being addressed. And for the record, i doubt anyone is under any illusions that Finland is not a Finnish speaking society

[mCowboy]

The question is, what can we do to help this person to (1) learn finnish, which i appreciate has been helpful to some extent. More importantly (2) what can we do, or assist the person to do tto come to Finland and do SOME kind of work, or programme or contact point for prospective employers, in order for the step down to be less harsh??? The question is not,as you put it, to change Finland into an english speaking country, but quite simly to help those many many posters who are english speaking and are qualified and are hardworking who just want to work and/or study..whilst OF COURSE learning Finnish or continue to learn it in order to fully integrate and live in Finland. It just seems that this obvious issue is not being addressed. And for the record, i doubt anyone is under any illusions that Finland is a Finish spaeking society

then the question is... how come most of the "new" people coming in this forum are too lazy/dumb not to ready the stickies which include 90% of the information they are looking for and expect everyone else to serve them hand and foot? If you can't find the information from these pages, and there's lots of it, how do you expect to survive in Finland? No pain, no gain...

[jason cowell]

The question is, what can we do to help this person to (1) learn finnish, which i appreciate has been helpful to some extent. More importantly (2) what can we do, or assist the person to do tto come to Finland and do SOME kind of work, or programme or contact point for prospective employers, in order for the step down to be less harsh??? The question is not,as you put it, to change Finland into an english speaking country, but quite simly to help those many many posters who are english speaking and are qualified and are hardworking who just want to work and/or study..whilst OF COURSE learning Finnish or continue to learn it in order to fully integrate and live in Finland. It just seems that this obvious issue is not being addressed. And for the record, i doubt anyone is under any illusions that Finland is a Finish spaeking society

then the question is... how come most of the people coming in this forum are too lazy/dumb not to ready the stickies which include 90% of the information they are looking for and expect everyone else to serve them hand and foot? If you can't find the information from these pages, and there's lots of it, how do you expect to survive in Finland? No pain, no gain...

With all due respect mcowboy(christ ), the info is not so all encompassing that it is just a matter of glancing through it and all is solved. The fact remains that on reading most questions, a large section of people are left with nowhere to go and no realistic or reachable starting point to moving. As for hard work, are you for real, many are working full-time jobs in their home countries, attemting to learn finnish, and trying to organise the shiftiong of their lives to another country. You clearly have no clue to where the majority of these people are coming from. Your attitude is "classic" what i am referring to. No solutons or slight guidance, just one liners. I am sure i speak for many on this site when i say we are willing to work hard to succeed in finland, just give us a direction and ways of getting around or easing the strain of the language barrier. maybe this is just such a huge problem that there is no-one willing to work with us to do this. In that case surely the forum is not doing what it has been set up to do.

[jason cowell]

The question is, what can we do to help this person to (1) learn finnish, which i appreciate has been helpful to some extent. More importantly (2) what can we do, or assist the person to do tto come to Finland and do SOME kind of work, or programme or contact point for prospective employers, in order for the step down to be less harsh??? The question is not,as you put it, to change Finland into an english speaking country, but quite simly to help those many many posters who are english speaking and are qualified and are hardworking who just want to work and/or study..whilst OF COURSE learning Finnish or continue to learn it in order to fully integrate and live in Finland. It just seems that this obvious issue is not being addressed. And for the record, i doubt anyone is under any illusions that Finland is a Finish spaeking society

then the question is... how come most of the people coming in this forum are too lazy/dumb not to ready the stickies which include 90% of the information they are looking for and expect everyone else to serve them hand and foot? If you can't find the information from these pages, and there's lots of it, how do you expect to survive in Finland? No pain, no gain...

With all due respect mcowboy(christ ), the info is not so all encompassing that it is just a matter of glancing through it and all is solved. The fact remains that on reading most questions, a large section of people are left with nowhere to go and no realistic or reachable starting point to moving. As for hard work, are you for real, many are working full-time jobs in their home countries, attemting to learn finnish, and trying to organise the shiftiong of their lives to another country. You clearly have no clue to where the majority of these people are coming from. Your attitude is "classic" what i am referring to. No solutons or slight guidance, just one liners. I am sure i speak for many on this site when i say we are willing to work hard to succeed in finland, just give us a direction and ways of getting around or easing the strain of the language barrier. maybe this is just such a huge problem that there is no-one willing to work with us to do this. In that case surely the forum is not doing what it has been set up to do.

....you pal are a joke if you refer to those you are supposed to be helping as lazy or dumb. What use are you to the people here??

[pierrot]

So Jason, as the guys here have no clue and are all negative, tell us more about your job history in Finland. Where have you applied, how has it been, how long have you worked, etc.

Furthermore, as you are now for 4 years with a Finn, am I right to assume that you are by now on a good level of Finnish? How has been learning Finnish? Easy language, hard language, where are the problems, what's easy?

[sammy]

The question is ... quite simly to help those many many posters who are english speaking and are qualified and are hardworking who just want to work and/or study..whilst OF COURSE learning Finnish or continue to learn it in order to fully integrate and live in Finland.

So... what exactly would you suggest we do (that hasn't been done on this forum) to achieve this goal? I agree with you to an extent, but what would you have us to do in practice?

(Btw believe me, there are many people who simultaneously "sort of" realise that Finnish is the language of this country, but can not see the difference between the sentences "many Finns speak English" and "Finland is an English-speaking country".)

[mCowboy]

then the question is... how come most of the people coming in this forum are too lazy/dumb not to ready the stickies which include 90% of the information they are looking for and expect everyone else to serve them hand and foot? If you can't find the information from these pages, and there's lots of it, how do you expect to survive in Finland? No pain, no gain...

With all due respect mcowboy(christ ), the info is not so all encompassing that it is just a matter of glancing through it and all is solved. The fact remains that on reading most questions, a large section of people are left with nowhere to go and no realistic or reachable starting point to moving. As for hard work, are you for real, many are working full-time jobs in their home countries, attemting to learn finnish, and trying to organise the shiftiong of their lives to another country. You clearly have no clue to where the majority of these people are coming from. Your attitude is "classic" what i am referring to. No solutons or slight guidance, just one liners. I am sure i speak for many on this site when i say we are willing to work hard to succeed in finland, just give us a direction and ways of getting around or easing the strain of the language barrier. maybe this is just such a huge problem that there is no-one willing to work with us to do this. In that case surely the forum is not doing what it has been set up to do.

....you pal are a joke if you refer to those you are supposed to be helping as lazy or dumb. What use are you to the people here??

I'm just being realistic. Most questions presented here are already answered many times over in this forum OR are easily available on internet after 2 minutes of googling with simple words like university +finland, when people come in here asking how can i find more information about finnish universities. Now that to me is simply laziness or dumbness, take your pick.

I'm no use for anyone here, since I've only posted close 2000 posts with more or less pertinent information to whoever was asking something. Now you been here for 2 years with 13 posts... how have you contributed to this forum, besides your moaning about the quality of the responses people give on their free time to help out you all aspiring relocators.

If you don't like the responses here, why do you come here? How about you do something constructive in this forum and help your fellow non-Finns...