What is with this forum?!!!!!

[jason cowell]

The question is ... quite simly to help those many many posters who are english speaking and are qualified and are hardworking who just want to work and/or study..whilst OF COURSE learning Finnish or continue to learn it in order to fully integrate and live in Finland.

So... what exactly would you suggest we do (that hasn't been done on this forum) to achieve this goal? I agree with you to an extent, but what would you have us to do in practice?

(Btw believe me, there are many people who simultaneously "sort of" realise that Finnish is the language of this country, but can not see the difference between the sentences "many Finns speak English" and "Finland is an English-speaking country".)

It is a maqtter of setting up areal jobs forum. one that advertises and searches to include people with skills within the country. For example, I am a counsellor, language is a huge barrier, yes even after 4years i still consider myself a novice at the language. I need to be in finland to lrearn it. Surely there must be a half way house approach that can be a divide between where people are in reality, i.e trying to learn finnish and employment, any employment for these people. The rest is just hard work. the culture, the people and the language. Not to mention learning the system and cultural landscape of your industry. All we ask is a job. Is there some way to communicate wholly with prospective employers. in numbers, to have a voice together in order to attract attention and to see that a valuable and skilled workforce is at their door? I am not the computer whizz, but surely people who are on this forum and others can work with those, like myself, who are trying to make this forum work for us. It is for us isn't it. IT SHOULD MEET THE NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE IT IS SET UP FOR IS MY POINT. THIS IS OUR NEED!!!

[mCowboy]

It is a maqtter of setting up areal jobs forum. one that advertises and searches to include people with skills within the country. For example, I am a counsellor, language is a huge barrier, yes even after 4years i still consider myself a novice at the language. I need to be in finland to lrearn it. Surely there must be a half way house approach that can be a divide between where people are in reality, i.e trying to learn finnish and employment, any employment for these people. The rest is just hard work. the culture, the people and the language. Not to mention learning the system and cultural landscape of your industry. All we ask is a job. Is there some way to communicate wholly with prospective employers. in numbers, to have a voice together in order to attract attention and to see that a valuable and skilled workforce is at their door? I am not the computer whizz, but surely people who are on this forum and others can work with those, like myself, who are trying to make this forum work for us. It is for us isn't it. IT SHOULD MEET THE NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE IT IS SET UP FOR IS MY POINT. THIS IS OUR NEED!!!

If you're looking for work, that's what sites like http://www.monster.fi is for.

If you want more service from this site, how much you're willing to pay to Neil to start developing this forum further?

[sammy]

I am not the computer whizz, but surely people who are on this forum and others can work with those, like myself, who are trying to make this forum work for us. It is for us isn't it. IT SHOULD MEET THE NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE IT IS SET UP FOR IS MY POINT. THIS IS OUR NEED!!!

An idea: why don't you leave everything you've worked with up to now, come to Finland and set up such a forum / job search system? Or start collaborating to that end with the owner(s) of this particular forum? SURELY there must be a way of doing this.

And I'm not being sarcastic!

[jason cowell]

It is a maqtter of setting up areal jobs forum. one that advertises and searches to include people with skills within the country. For example, I am a counsellor, language is a huge barrier, yes even after 4years i still consider myself a novice at the language. I need to be in finland to lrearn it. Surely there must be a half way house approach that can be a divide between where people are in reality, i.e trying to learn finnish and employment, any employment for these people. The rest is just hard work. the culture, the people and the language. Not to mention learning the system and cultural landscape of your industry. All we ask is a job. Is there some way to communicate wholly with prospective employers. in numbers, to have a voice together in order to attract attention and to see that a valuable and skilled workforce is at their door? I am not the computer whizz, but surely people who are on this forum and others can work with those, like myself, who are trying to make this forum work for us. It is for us isn't it. IT SHOULD MEET THE NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE IT IS SET UP FOR IS MY POINT. THIS IS OUR NEED!!!

If you're looking for work, that's what sites like http://www.monster.fi is for.

If you want more service from this site, how much you're willing to pay to Neil to start developing this forum further?

I would pay and i fully appreciate that that is what is needed. If thats what we need to do, then lets put our heads together and do this. I don't want to make any enemies here, but these are just the facts. there is repition with the help given and it just keeps rolling aroung without solutions

[Cod]

..turn it on its head , what kind of person would you dissuade from coming to Ireland as an immigrant and why..

..you'll find parallels quite quickly...

[mCowboy]

I would pay and i fully appreciate that that is what is needed. If thats what we need to do, then lets put our heads together and do this. I don't want to make any enemies here, but these are just the facts. there is repition with the help given and it just keeps rolling aroung without solutions

ok, so contact Neil, ask how much he wants to develop the features you want, pay it and let us know how things progress...

[mrjimsfc]

I really don't see any..its "speak Finnish or don't come"!!!

Isn't that similar to what Americans are telling the Mexicans? "Speak English or don't come!"

[mCowboy]

I really don't see any..its "speak Finnish or don't come"!!!

Isn't that similar to what Americans are telling the Mexicans? "Speak English or don't come!"

Maybe I should hire Jason as my pool boy...

[EP]

Is there some way to communicate wholly with prospective employers

They put their wanted-ads on pages like http://www.mol.fi , http://www.monster.fi , http://www.aarresaari.net .

Otherwise I don´t think prospective employers hang out in the net. As long as there are over 200 applicants for 1 job, they don´t have to.

[sammy]

IT SHOULD MEET THE NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE IT IS SET UP FOR IS MY POINT. THIS IS OUR NEED!!!

Remember that if this service would be designed to profit Finland as well, not only the "foreigners" wishing to move here, it shouldn't be only available for English-speakers, now should it? There is a huge skilled workforce out there who does not necessarily speak English... waiting for information on how to move to Finland, learn Finnish and work hard... unless you decide that this particular service would unfortunately be limited to those who know English (...now where have I heard a similar phrase before... hmm ) you'd need to have a multi-lingual interface for a start.

I'm all for your plan, just pointing out some things to be considered - and awaiting for the development with considerable interest.

Btw you could model this job database on this one

http://europa.eu.int/eures/

...just leave out all that you think does not work and insert the features you need.

[interleukin]

IT SHOULD MEET THE NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE IT IS SET UP FOR IS MY POINT. THIS IS OUR NEED!!!

Im quite happy with this forum as it is.

[Mölkky-Fan]

Well Jason, I posted a job for non-Finnish speakers on the forum so I made an effort. Maybe I am allowed to comment...

The reality is that there are some jobs available, but they are not easy to find and they tend to be only for certain jobs and only in certain companies.

The reality is that Finnish is a huge plus point even if Finnish is not needed for the job, it makes speaking to colleagues easier and gives a good impression to the hiring manager. So therefore you must really be extra special to get the job, even if Finnish is not needed.

You must turn it around, how would a non-English speaker get on in UK even if it was in a Finnish language call centre? It would be very difficult, and certainly a person who could speak Finnish and English would be a more attractive proposition.

I have tried to give some guidelines, as have many others on the Forum, but as the jobs are quite rare and special, sometimes you just need persistance and some luck to complement your selective job applications. And remember that if you are applying for an advertised position, then there are also several hundred more non-Finnish speakers also interested and applying.

The reality is that many people do meet a Finnish boy/girl friend and travel here with the idea that a job is fairly easy to find, and then very soon run out of money and have to leave. I came here with large amount of funds, and went through most of them before I found a good job.

I think that sometimes the comments are a bit straight talking and appear negative, but also we do see the same message time and time again from people who came here and cannot believe that they cannot get a job.

[meplusthree]

As a relative new comer to this site (though have been living in Finland for 10 years) I am in agreement with Jason's original post. Far too often the topics get side tracked/hi-jacked or degenerate into slanging matches and abuse. Ok i will admit to also making some sarcastic posts.
This mainly applies to those looking for advice about moving here, so any useful information soon gets buried in a mass off smart ass comments, slanging matches and BIG photos so defeating the object of the forum.
There are other Finnish related international English speaking associations with a similar format to this one and although there are some of the same posters on the other site the volume of abuse/tends to be less.
Unfortunately it seems that a lot of internet forums suffer from the same problem!

[Karhunkoski]

All we ask is a job. Is there some way to communicate wholly with prospective employers. in numbers, to have a voice together in order to attract attention and to see that a valuable and skilled workforce is at their door?

Jason, you send them a CV, they know you're there. A lack of interview/job offer is because they didn't want you. More explanation needed:

The ones who have English speaking jobs available are often quite happy to recruit someone with fluent English, in fact some will prefer a native fluent speaker to a Finn for positions such as technical writing, marketing material to be sent abroad, some sales positions. And when I say "fluent native", I don't mean "fluent" as in a Finn speaking "excellent English", I mean someone who's familiarity with the language is such that they can pick-up on every characteristic of English usage, observe tone, slang, spelling and grammar, obscure vocabulary, skill of expression, and above all, have the ability to work comfortably in English, both written and spoken, with ACCURACY and SPEED. There are many native English speakers who don't meet this criteria either.


Now, as for the "any job" you mentioned. If you're talking manual work, this often means operating tools or machines (however small). Anything that is remotely dangerous requires the staff to be trained, having to deliver training and the accompanying safety notices in a second language is needlessly expensive. Finns don't owe you anything, why should they shoulder the extra cost of employing you?

OK, dinner ready, back later with more.

[kalmisto]

>> Surely there must be a half way house approach that can be a divide between where people are in reality, i.e trying to learn finnish and employment, any employment for these people. The rest is just hard work. the culture, the people and the language. Not to mention learning the system and cultural landscape of your industry. All we ask is a job. Is there some way to communicate wholly with prospective employers. in numbers, to have a voice together in order to attract attention and to see that a valuable and skilled workforce is at their door? <<

Perhaps something to consider :
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