What is with this forum?!!!!!

Useful advice on jobs, careers and entrepreneurship in Finland. Find job postings, job information, work permits and more.
Post Reply
User avatar
pierrot
Posts: 1812
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:20 pm

Post by pierrot » Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:31 am

littlefrank wrote:'since I've only posted close 2000 posts with more or less pertinent information to whoever was asking something.'

Wow mCowboy you've finally managed to make me laugh my socks off.

Since when did smutty schoolboy humour and sarcasm come under the heading of 'pertinent information'?
:lol: :lol: :lol:


Here in Finland, I have done everything I can to blend-in with the Finns, I've changed my hair color, wore differnet clothes, got different

Sponsor:

Finland Forum Ad-O-Matic
 

User avatar
Pete
Posts: 798
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:05 am
Location: Kuninkaala, Vantaa

Post by Pete » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:29 am

I recently spotted an ad in the Australian Suomi-Lehti for job opportunities in a forthcoming mining company venture somewhere near Joensuu. I would post the details but it means typing the whole damn thing out! :( Seems they want Aussies of Finnish background to move over here to help them get the company going. However, Finnish language skills are a must, so don't get your hopes up if you can't fulfill that requirement.
Does anybody want to know more? Should i post it up?

User avatar
sinikettu
Posts: 2769
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:16 pm

Post by sinikettu » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:32 am

The idea of ex pat communities getting together and serving each other by setting up "trade between themselves" seems to have already been tried by the Chinese in Finland...

In Kouvola...in the premises of an old dairy they said they aimed to house 150 shops employing some 400 Chinese citizens.

But ... The National Bureau of Investigation thinks it is a scam..and..suspects this China center is being used to arrange visas for Chinese citizens coming to Europe.
:roll:
:roll:
http://www.yle.fi/news/left/id68604.html
People do not become more irritable as they grow old - they simply stop making the effort to avoid annoying others.

meplusthree
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:53 am

Post by meplusthree » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:51 am

littlefrank wrote:'since I've only posted close 2000 posts with more or less pertinent information to whoever was asking something.'

Wow mCowboy you've finally managed to make me laugh my socks off.

Since when did smutty schoolboy humour and sarcasm come under the heading of 'pertinent information'?
Totally agree with you Little Frank

User avatar
mCowboy
Posts: 4248
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:22 am
Location: Home of Football

Post by mCowboy » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:54 am

meplusthree wrote:
littlefrank wrote:'since I've only posted close 2000 posts with more or less pertinent information to whoever was asking something.'

Wow mCowboy you've finally managed to make me laugh my socks off.

Since when did smutty schoolboy humour and sarcasm come under the heading of 'pertinent information'?
Totally agree with you Little Frank
Image
Get in there...

sammy
Posts: 7313
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:38 pm

Post by sammy » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:07 am

FFCBOY wrote:Dont forget English is really Finlands Second Language!
This is only true in the sense that yes, many natives understand and speak English (to a varying degree). It still remains a foreign language however, also to me, even though I can use it fairly fluently.

One thing concerning the relationship between Finnish language skills and finding a job. It may be self-evident to most, but let it still be stated that even if you have "I am a native Finn and never make a mistake when conjugating the verb KIILLOTTAA" engraved on your cv stone tablets, that is no magical guarantee of automatically finding employment. If there's an open job vacancy for one person, for example somewhere in Helsinki, it's very unlikely indeed to be a case of one "furrigner" and one Finn competing against each other. More likely in fact is that there are, say, 50 applicants and in one sense, it does not matter a whit to those 49 that will be rejected whether the other are foreigners or Finns - since obviously only ONE of them is going to get the job!

Of course this is a generalisation, and of course this does not remove the fact that as a non-Finnish speaker one does not have equal chances of finding employment with the Finnish speakers - the "unfortunate" fact that Finland is a Finnish-speaking country is enough to tip the scales. Nor does the above explain away the sad possibility that some prejudiced employers still may be "afraid" of choosing a skilled foreigner (even if he/she knows Finnish) just because he/she happens to have a slightly darker skin, or whatever.

Not knowing Finnish / being "foreign" however are not ALWAYS the reasons why one may receive a brown envelope containing the message "Thank you for your interest towards our company, however this time our choice fell on some other applicant". (If indeed such a letter ever arrives :roll:)

Just wanted to remind you that many of us natives are no strangers to disappointment, rejection letters, fierce competition, jealousy, failure, financial difficulties and all such like - and that "being fluent in Finnish" or even "born Finnish" does not provide you with immunity against them.

(just waiting for that "no f*ck Shylock" comment :))

Pavlor
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:50 pm
Location: Tampere

Post by Pavlor » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:08 am

Do you notice how I'm being quiet mCowboy?

jason cowell
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:21 pm
Location: cork ireland

Post by jason cowell » Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:51 am

Its great to see that there is people on this site who have an interest and a will to begin to run with what has been said. I would love to contact certain people who are willing/ able to maybe see what we can do to make non-finnish speaking members more visible to employers. I am trying to think of new and innovative ways to do this and would appreciate if anyone with any ideas to contact me. Thanks for mostly thinking through what i have brought up and taking the time to respond. The other two twats can go....

Pavlor
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:50 pm
Location: Tampere

Post by Pavlor » Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:56 am

Jason,

If you deal in heads, then there have more than your fare-share of messed up foreigners here in Finland. I am sure you could work in that area here and make a nice little living out of it.

Start with the two twats you talk of as they are really messed up in my opinion.

Go for it. :shock:

User avatar
Karhunkoski
Posts: 7034
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:44 pm
Location: Keski-Suomi

Post by Karhunkoski » Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:22 pm

jason cowell wrote: I would love to contact certain people who are willing/ able to maybe see what we can do to make non-finnish speaking members more visible to employers. ...
I sometimes wonder if it's really worth commenting. :shock:

The lack of employments opportunities for foreigners in Finland is due to many reasons, most were covered here, however the answer IS NOT merely to make non-Finnish speakers "more visible to employers".
Political correctness is the belief that it's possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Pavlor
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:50 pm
Location: Tampere

Post by Pavlor » Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:27 pm

Karhunkoski wrote:
jason cowell wrote: I would love to contact certain people who are willing/ able to maybe see what we can do to make non-finnish speaking members more visible to employers. ...
I sometimes wonder if it's really worth commenting. :shock:

The lack of employments opportunities for foreigners in Finland is due to many reasons, most were covered here, however the answer IS NOT merely to make non-Finnish speakers "more visible to employers".
Carry on the post Karhunkoski...

User avatar
Lintu
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:47 am
Location: Kyiv-Helsinki

what is forum for?

Post by Lintu » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:51 pm

Discussion is hot and I couldn't stop myself from interfering. I disagree with you, Jason. Unfortunately.

I am a foreigner (Ukrainian). I am living in Finland for a year already. I am married to a Finn. I moved here only after I found a job. No, I do not speak Finnish (studying it the 2nd year), yes, I have university education, good job history, very good network and a bit of luck. And I didn’t demand anything from people on this forum. They are not obliged to look for a job for you or anyone else.

The truth is that you have a right to ask for the advice here and the other forum members have a right to post comments and their opinions. That’s it. And it’s not a job service. Though if you check from Job and Entrepreneurship section you will see that some people KINDLY POST INFORMATION ON JOB OFFERS.

This forum is very helpful for many people. And it’s more than enough already. Many valuable advices are given. It’s just hard for some people to accept these advices if they are not comforting or create dissonance with their expectations.

I personally like this forum. And thankful to those who invest their time and efforts! It’s not so often you could meet this kind of attitude in the nowadays world.

And I wish you good luck with your efforts to develop something for people who look for a job in Finland :)

User avatar
Cod
Posts: 1001
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 9:51 pm
Location: Espoo

Post by Cod » Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:40 pm

Yes there are jobs, if you are brilliant at architectural visualisation, there are always jobs...but only for the brave and the talented.. you don't need Finnish necessarily but as always, it would be considerate to have a 'grasp'..

..also, a handyman who follows up new-build housing. On completion, there are always a number of tasks outside of a contract that need doing around a finished estate house (eg paving). If you turn up a week after a whole suburb has moved it, you'll find work, even if you don't know Finnish (people who can buy new houses tend to be able to speak better english than the likes of me)

..I'll add things as I think of them

User avatar
rinso
Posts: 3949
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:22 pm

Post by rinso » Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:49 pm

jason cowell wrote:. ... see what we can do to make non-finnish speaking members more visible to employers. I am trying to think of new and innovative ways to do this ....
I don't think this is a good idea, it might even be counter productive.
Finns in general, don't present themselves as groups. If foreigners do, they underline the fact that they are different. It wouldn't help. Besides, employers look for people who can speak for themselves, not those who let a group do the talking.

If you want to actively do something for foreigners, create integration programs, lobby for recognition of foreign diplomas etc. Try to set up network possibilities for foreigners (see bb/viewtopic.php?t=25037)

The reality is that foreigners have to adapt to the Finnish situation, not the employers to the foreigners.

User avatar
Hank W.
The Motorhead
Posts: 29973
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2002 10:00 pm
Location: Mushroom Mountain
Contact:

Post by Hank W. » Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:18 pm

rinso wrote: I don't think this is a good idea, it might even be counter productive. Finns in general, don't present themselves as groups. If foreigners do, they underline the fact that they are different.
Oh come one now, visualise now a Spencer Tunick moment, with 10 000 people with their gilt arses shining "wee wants a yooob" in the Väinö Tanner park.

And you're slightly incorrect in the "presenting themselves as groups"; the polytechnic students for example are required to make a 6 months internship as a part of their studies. So to make the employers aware of this "resource" the polytechnics do advertise. The second place that pops toi mind is the place you find a lawyer - they definitely "present themselves as a group" as well as do other "guilds" if you wish, say like official translators etc. etc. etc.

However the basic question of employment in Finland isn't that the employers aren't aware of the mere existance of potential employees.

a) theres no jobs
b) theres no jobs not because there wouldn't be work
c) to create a job and to hire someone to fill it is at a very high cost to the employer
d) small employers can't be arsed go through all the trouble, so rather overwork the current employees than start a process
e) when you hire someone you expect them to do 3 jobs at the same time then, and there is no time to babysit

Now this ends up as a catch-22 situation. There are ways to alleviate this problem, say like temp agencies. But for a temp agency they want to make sure they can "send" the person anywhere, so this looming language requirement starts biting ass...

Then, as we've discussed before, theres this "trust" question. Its got nothing to do with honesty and such, its more of "predictability" - "the ability of being able to function withing the same cultural concept framework". So to be employed in a Finnish company with Finnish people you need to fit in the "Finnish box". The language requirement is half due to this subconscious requirement. If you speak Finnish, you've been here long enough to have "become a Finn" - i.e. send "Finnish vibes". Thus the employer can "trust you to act like a Finn would" in a given situation. Its more of a psychological issue really, hence your need of networking, a Finn to say "hes allright" as another Finn will give the "Finnish Point of View" assessment of the "abilities" - basically as the potential employee cannot "read" a foreigner in a 15 minute interview.... the "gaydar" doesn't work :lol:

So its not necessarily one problem but a number of problems that needs to be tackled. Don't know how well they realise all this up in the MOL, but they've started quite a few intergration programmes with good results. However when it comes to government programmes they're to the "needy" so its all wards of the state - refugees etc. rather than bright-eyed HBS cases off the ryanair that get the main focus.

That is why that
a large section of people are left with nowhere to go and no realistic or reachable starting point to moving.
are being told not to come in the first place, as if they just fly over and "think positive" the chances are very high they
are left with nowhere to go and no realistic or reachable chances of finding a job
So no use giving them any pointers as there is no point for them to move, especially before they drop the rose-tinted-glasses. Of course yeah, yeah, group hug and all that shyte, let them come here and find out for themselves. And what do they then do - bitch, moan and whine 24/7 and go back home whining, its maybe half of of those who succeed either by blind luck or talent and ability, and half of them leave within 2 years because they lack the guts to stay. And those wo stay longer become barking mad. Woof!

Think positive - ajattelet kuin posetiivi :twisted:
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.


Post Reply