What is with this forum?!!!!!

[Hank W.]

In real life you're OK....but here you're becoming increasingly intolerant, in a kinda broken-record style.

Just as people learn to place the needle right and not scratch the bloody vinyl...

[Hank W.]

And all the imbecile foreigners who think it's funny to take
their stupidity to court in trying to take on the TV license agency
by claiming they didn't know they needed to have a license.
Even though I'd be losing !"#¤% of income,

Come on now, you can say your income is generated by idiotism.
If these people believed me, you'd be jobless...

On the other hand, as it is *my tax money* paying for the court and your translation, my intolerance against letting idiots into the country rises excrementally...

[Hank W.]

Choose clean nature. Choose safe environment. Choose free education.
Choose a f*n big country with a f*n small population,
Choose taxes the size of a yearly income elsewhere,
old cars, half a year of darkness and a meter of snow.
Choose no sleep, high alcohol content and no mental therapy.
Choose fixed union salaries. Choose a rented shoebox for a family of five.
Choose no friends. Choose black jeans and matching combat boots.
Choose an axe for your cottage in a range of f*n forged steel blades.
Choose a Finnish partner and wondering why the f* you're logged on FinlandForum on a Sunday morning.
Choose sitting in a classroom listening at mind-numbing, spirit-crushing Finnish grammar,
craving f* foreign food into your mouth.
Choose leaving at the end of it all, selling your last piece of furniture at a loss to some miserable newcomer,
nothing more than an embarrassment to the rose-tinted-glasses-wearing,
f*d up losers spawned by Ryanair to get over to their Nordic Welfare Paradise.
Choose your future.
Choose Finland.

[enk]

And all the imbecile foreigners who think it's funny to take
their stupidity to court in trying to take on the TV license agency
by claiming they didn't know they needed to have a license.
Even though I'd be losing !"#¤% of income,

Come on now, you can say your income is generated by idiotism.
If these people believed me, you'd be jobless...

I'd be happy to be jobless if it were for that reason.

On the other hand, as it is *my tax money* paying for the court and your translation, my intolerance against letting idiots into the country rises excrementally...

Yeah, at least with me it's gets cancelled out since I get paid for doing
the job and my taxes go to it, too.

Got a text message this morning that the situation looks better \o/
although not out of the woods by a long stretch. And my ex-MIL just left
for the hospital so more news should be forthcoming.

-enk

[debonaire]

People like Hank and Mccowboy are courteous enough to tell people here in this forum what a Finn will not tell you but be thinking about it..Till they become your friend which could take upto a decade..

The biggest problem ..err rather the shock that foreigners face in Finland is how direct a Finn can be...

HELLO! Wake up debonaire. You still think we're on a crusade to make life suck for all new immigrants. We aren't. Our "pessimism" is only half the picture. The other half is the positive thinking... and usually they do that themselves. If someone talks about both sides in here what happens? The newbie picks and chooses the nice parts, and half-ignores the rest, and then posts about (something glossy and exciting) and really has no clue what difficulties they will face.

Wake up. They have all the enthusiasm already. They're missing the realism. If there is ONE thing you should know is that a Finn says NOTHING unless it needs to be said. No rubbish comes out of their mouths for the sake of filling a silence. So wake up and think about what Raam said. If a Finn talks it's blunt and it's what you see when Hank tells it like it is. If people can't deal with that they chose the wrong damned country to dream about and they should just move to Canada instead.

Okay tummansinnien...I am wide awake and that is why I insist on always presenting both sides of the coin....I haven't accused you guys of being on a crusade against immigrants...but it does feel as if you guys are appoaching this sensitive topic on preconceived notions and a rigid mindset...
Newbies should be provided with all the necessary information that could be handy and useful in dealing with life here...I agree they have all the motivation and inspiration of the world to fructify their ambitions and goals but presenting a dark picture always will certainly make him/her blind and would amount to crushing their beliefs...Continuously engaging on the onset to highlight the evils of finnish society tantamounts to ruthless killing of his/her ambitions...I believe its only being fair on my part to provide both sides of life here...

Some people on this forum tend to super hype and highly overrate the problems associated with living here...They make it sound like the newbies are moving to hell and the devilish finnish society is waiting anxiously with its wide open fangs to savour these innocent newbies...I fail to understand what purpose they are serving by indulging themselves in a malicious propaganda against their native country...its being utterly whimsical.....Stooping down to such levels clearly illustrates what class of civilisation they belong to. Its not being realistic by indulging in spreading negative publicity of Finland;its being sheerly cynical and ungrateful and lashing a lethal kick on the face of life here...

Like any other society of the world,Finnish society too has several layers and as someone on this forum rightly put it, these people belong to the lowest level...No wonder they do not believe in democracy,have no respect for others' opinions and resort to provocative language when their utterly cynical views are challenged.

I have no idea which part of Finland these honorable people are living presently because I am yet to come across any of the problems mentioned by them and I have been living here for quite some time...On the contrary,I have had good experiences...Finns around me have been forthcoming with their suggestions and helpful advises whenever I needed...Touchwood...

I am opposed to views expressed by those people who religiously make it a point to dig out the negative aspects of life here and then play on to super hype these issues....They make living in finland sound like hell...Do you think anyone would dare to come to finland after listening to their baseless,self-exhunmed and hollow opinions...What is the point of instigating a fear of Finland in the minds of newbies?? Its like a warning which says" Layoff or else face excommunication"...Coutesy to HANK and raamv,Finland wouls soon be regarded as a forbidden country...Offlimits where immigrants are outcasts...

I fail to understand how a rational person like you has subscibed to views expressed by HANK and raamv...Should't you explore both sides and weigh down the advantages and drawbacks...Maybe you should get in touch with some likeminded finns...HANK is not the only finn in finland...Kindly do not base your opinions on listening to culturally uneducated finns, who consider themselves to be the sole custodians of finnish society and immigrants as the parasites eating it away...Need I say more about prejudiced and biased opinions...

If living in finland is so tough for immigrants,then how come people like raamv has survived,is alive and kicking...I am sure he would have moved back to India long time ago if he didn't find the conditions favorable to his growth here...or does he think that he is highly capable and superior to other immigrants and only he has the ability to survive the evils of finland...

Now coming down to the last point raised by you...Why would any immigrant blame someone else for hie/her decision to move to finland?..Firstly,i believe one is responsible for one's own actions and passing the blame to someone else for your failures represents a person with a weak mind who lacks the capability to take decisions on his/her own initiative and gets readily influenced by others' opinions...As any other rational person,he/she should explore the pros and cons of living in Finland and should arrive at a decision on the basis of an analysis.As an immigrant myself,i feel morally obliged to present a practical picture rather than just showing the darker side and then dwelling on religiously to overrate the difficulties associated with life here...All i am saying is that living in finland is not as tough and certainly not hellish as some honorable people of this forum have made it out to be...Its a way of looking at a half-filled glass which reflects one's attitude...No prizes for guessing what kind of attitude thay have...

[Hank W.]

Why would any immigrant blame someone else for hie/her decision to move to finland?..Firstly,i believe one is responsible for one's own actions and passing the blame to someone else for your failures represents a person with a weak mind who lacks the capability to take decisions on his/her own initiative and gets readily influenced by others' opinions...As any other rational person,he/she should explore the pros and cons of living in Finland and should arrive at a decision on the basis of an analysis.

Well then tell that to all the whiners who come and bitch and moan and whine here. You deal with the datsundatsuns asd SaxonMen. You tell them happy happy joy joy paradise stories.

See now if it is such happy happy joy joy there is no need to bitch and moan and complain about Finland. So if you say what is true then all these complaining people are wrong.

Which I think they are, as Finland is a Paradise on Earth.

[raamv]

If living in finland is so tough for immigrants,then how come people like raamv has survived,is alive and kicking...I am sure he would have moved back to India long time ago if he didn't find the conditions favorable to his growth here...or does he think that he is highly capable and superior to other immigrants and only he has the ability to survive the evils of finland...

having all the motivations, aspirations aint gonna help you if you dont "understand" the reality here...
have you lost a job here? let alone gained one? have you managed to get raises here? get promotions? have you managed to save money with the salary you get? or raise a family with one salary?
have you managed to live and survive really well outside the capital area? while doing all the above?
I have survived and am surviving here because I understand the realities of living and working in Finland instead of being stupid naive and idiotically whimsical with rose colored glasses.
and No I would not move back to India...for I am far more patient, determined, connected, qualified and experienced to get a job anywhere in this world.
Finland is by far the most homogeneous society if it means anything to your brauns..err brains..that means that people need to accept "immigrants" as part of their equals...which rarely happens outside the capital area...
AND it also means that an immigrant needs to know this and adapt to the society they want to belong to ( instead of being an outsider for the rest of their lives).. and that means understanding the culture, in and out of work..understanding your rights and obligations....
For all of these you need a Finn to make you understand this..and One Finn aint gonna cut it..as the silence will kill most of the immigrants..
you want to listen what a 1000 other Finns WONT tell.. What Hank and others are trying to tell...
for as every culture "These are things that everyone knows but no one tells you"..
I face this everyday at work and in real life..and I help every foreigner that I encounter at work or otherwise..and I ve gotten to the point where I am able to tell some of the Finns too..
So dont start your fart till you know where the sound comes from..

[raamv]

and moreover, even in this forum, there were many who came here with hopes and ambitions to conquer Finland..and see all of those being dashed because some idiot like you told them that : come to Finland, there are plenty of jobs available in Imatra.. or a stupid brain-bust makes someone think that they can come here and start living here cos this "is a beautiful place where there is no crime etc etc ) only to find out that they cant even read the sign for bus stop...let alone where it comes form and goes..
or that they need someone's translation to fill out a KELA application form.
There are lots of immigrants in this forum who are not able to express what Hank, me and others are able to...for they have their own issuses to take care of..by making ends meet...fighting the system to barely survive..
what that F*C*k do you know about them or what have you done to help any of them? Telling them to look forward aint gonna get the bacon in their plates..
using your own argument, you have pre-judged me to have attitudes with people that you know from India and I dont know how wrong that you can be with the statements that you have made. you dont know anything about me...just that my sig states an Indian flag..but then you totally missed the Finnish Flag eh..

its like these f*cking "I am proud to be an Indian bcos someone from India discovered 0, or the VP of Intel is an Indian...":.why cant you be proud bcos you are you and you can make a difference..cos thats what those people did..instead of attaching their fame to your heritage..

[sinikala]

So if you say what is true then all these complaining people are wrong.

Which I think they are, as Finland is a Paradise on Earth.

There is never a good time to be smoking crack, but 2 in the afternoon was definitely too early.

Finland is passable, as said elsewhere ... Helsinki is quite good... the rest of the country is a bit dull. Paradise it most certainly is not.

[EP]

Sinikala, aren´t Brits usually good at sarcasm?

[sinikala]

Sinikala, aren´t Brits usually good at sarcasm?

Yeah... but my sense of humour was removed at Vantaa as I got off the plane in 2000 - I blend in nicely.

[debonaire]

If living in finland is so tough for immigrants,then how come people like raamv has survived,is alive and kicking...I am sure he would have moved back to India long time ago if he didn't find the conditions favorable to his growth here...or does he think that he is highly capable and superior to other immigrants and only he has the ability to survive the evils of finland...

having all the motivations, aspirations aint gonna help you if you dont "understand" the reality here...
have you lost a job here? let alone gained one? have you managed to get raises here? get promotions? have you managed to save money with the salary you get? or raise a family with one salary?
have you managed to live and survive really well outside the capital area? while doing all the above?
I have survived and am surviving here because I understand the realities of living and working in Finland instead of being stupid naive and idiotically whimsical with rose colored glasses.
and No I would not move back to India...for I am far more patient, determined, connected, qualified and experienced to get a job anywhere in this world.
Finland is by far the most homogeneous society if it means anything to your brauns..err brains..that means that people need to accept "immigrants" as part of their equals...which rarely happens outside the capital area...
AND it also means that an immigrant needs to know this and adapt to the society they want to belong to ( instead of being an outsider for the rest of their lives).. and that means understanding the culture, in and out of work..understanding your rights and obligations....
For all of these you need a Finn to make you understand this..and One Finn aint gonna cut it..as the silence will kill most of the immigrants..
you want to listen what a 1000 other Finns WONT tell.. What Hank and others are trying to tell...
for as every culture "These are things that everyone knows but no one tells you"..
I face this everyday at work and in real life..and I help every foreigner that I encounter at work or otherwise..and I ve gotten to the point where I am able to tell some of the Finns too..
So dont start your fart till you know where the sound comes from..

Okay now I am really at crossroads after reading your posts...Dude,why don't you understand that most people who come here have either a work permit or someone close to help them out in the intitial phase...Its not llike a guy wakes up one morning and decides to move to finland in pursuit of happiness..Do you really think someone does that??...try to understand...people will not move here out of the blues...Normal people do it when they have something concrete in hand...
So if they have a work permit or someone close to help them out,then how does the finnish society and finnish language become impediment to their success initially....you are talking out of your @#$% brawns...You seem to be having a very outdated notions concerning immigrants...you think you are the only immigrant in finland with pragmatism and perseverance to survive...Hell no,there are countless others who are more qualified....as for me,being an Indian,i passed out from IIT,Kanpur with mechanical engineering...needless to say that you are aware IITS are the best in India for engineering...so forget about me and my problems as i have none...

I would also like to bring to your kind attention that i am presently residing outside the metropolitan area and doing pretty well..Recently I got a raise after i discussed the matter with my superior...

you are cribbing so much about taxation...maybe you should have a closer look at Indian tax system..then you would probably understand how complicated the system at home is... You are being so ungrateful to finland despite being aware of the ground realities in india...no wonder that you don't want to go back and carry on moaning and bitching about the system here...I am sorry to say but usually some idiotic Indians like you are notorious for their bitching...to simply put the words into your
@#$% blackhole...don't forget your roots and at the same time,strive to represent your country abroad in the best possible manner by letting go your bitching attitude...

[raamv]

why don't you understand that most people who come here have either a work permit or someone close to help them out in the intitial phase...Its not llike a guy wakes up one morning and decides to move to finland in pursuit of happiness..Do you really think someone does that??...

Dudette!!! Tell that to the people who come here "in love" and ask for that question here over and over again...and idiots like you keep telling them to work on their fantasies..and to get a work permit...How stupid can you be to realize that quite a bit of the population moves here without the basics ( money saved, Finnish language) based on love and happiness and then ask the question about work and living here..

as for me,being an Indian,i passed out from IIT,Kanpur with mechanical engineering...needless to say that you are aware IITS are the best in India for engineering.

Says who..that was the outdated notion that it was the best.... and so you "passed out" instead of graduated to become what? I dont give a rat's a¤¤ that you graduated from IIT or where ever...

You are being so ungrateful to finland despite being aware of the ground realities in india...no wonder that you don't want to go back and carry on moaning and bitching about the system here...I am sorry to say but usually some idiotic Indians like you are notorious for their bitching...to simply put the words into your
@#$% blackhole...don't forget your roots and at the same time,strive to represent your country abroad in the best possible manner by letting go your bitching attitude...

F*CK your theory about ungratefulness as my tax money is fueling immigrants to study here and get their free dole too...so I have the right as any Finn to talk about the system. but I aint the one b*tchin about it..

I got my way payed here and found work before moving in here though I could ve easily done it..like most others: come here and then start lookin for work..
Now which part of your pea size brain didnt realize that I consider myself to be permenantly living in Finland even though I was born an Indian...Unlike your attitude =>"Since I am Indian..I would like to live like one and have my mini India whereever I move to and that the society there dont have a right to critize the way I like my mini India to BE"...

I dont want a mini India to be wherever I emigrate to...If that was the case, I wouldnt have left India in the first place. So pea brains realize that Though I am Indian by birth, I am a Finn by attitude and thats what makes ME PROUD instead of a twat likeyou who comes in to Rob Finland of its resources.

[DMC]

> They don't arrive with the language taken care of... EVER!
> I have not seen ONE SINGLE person in these forums say they've been
> learning Finnish and got it to work standards before they arrived!

tummansininen, you are correct. It never happens that way. So why keep banging the drum about it? Why not face reality? Accept that all of us arrive with preparation that is far less than perfect, but most of us get by anyway? Why tell people it is virtually impossible, that they only have a 1% chance, and claim that that is reality?

[Hank W.]

I have not seen ONE SINGLE person in these forums say they've been learning Finnish and got it to work standards before they arrived!

Unless you count those who've got ancestry and learned it as kids, I'd say a few prodigies have passed the radar. Usually language teachers coming to do their obligatory wierd language, but I met a Japanese gentleman once who'd learnt Finnish just for the heck of it.

The best I've seen is ONE guy had it to fluency in two years after he arrived. He's immortal and not normal.

Hey I didn't know I knew immortals - I *do* know a few people who've aced Finnish quick, one German girl in 7 months or something like that, corrected me in my comma punctuation that one.