How long does it take to learn the Finnish language?

[EP]

Sámi easier? I don´t see how. All I understand is "poliisa" and "justisministtar", and obviously because they are loans.

[Aquila]

There is not any water-teight rules for choosing the right case for names of town. THere is a tendency to use inesive for greater towns inside Finland, and for foreign towns.

In the same way there is a tendency tu ose the preposition "i" for greater towns in own country and for foreygn citries.

[Aquila]

THere is purhaps also a greater tendency to use adessive for inland towns and inessive for seaside towns?

[enk]

Sámi easier? I don´t see how. All I understand is "poliisa" and "justisministtar", and obviously because they are loans.

I'm sure there were other words you understood, too:

Ruoŧa (simple deduction will let you figure out what country that is and you can figure out it's a country by the fact that it's modifying justisministtar)

ahte should be easy if you remember how Finns make fun of the way the
Sámi and Laplanders speak. Convert that lovely h to a t and think of what
conjunction it sounds like in Finnish.

go another conjunction that occurs in Finnish and in this case it
sounds exactly the same in some dialects, including one that I think you speak. If you still don't know which one it is, see what I wrote below for
converting the initial consonants to Finnish.

miljon this word shouldn't need any explanation.

ruvnnu based on the fact that it follows the previous word and a number, and considering what country the article is talking about, it should be easy to guess what monetary unit this is, even though the initial consonant in the Swedish form is missing.

Vaikko yet another conjunction that is in Finnish, too.

vel a bit more difficult perhaps, but add a dipthong in the first syllable and a vowel on the end to turn it into a two-syllable Finnish word.

eai not hard to figure out which form of the negative verb this is in Finnish.

vahku a time unit that exists in Finnish, too

máksu drop the accent mark and change the final vowel and it's the
same word in Finnish.

muhto yet another conjunction that follows the same rule as ahte. (Almost?) all conjunctions are loan words from Finnish.

Stockholmma I'm really surprised you didn't know this one.

And if I tell your that d-->t, g-->k and b-->p at the beginning of words,
then you probably understand these too:

dutkiid
bearjadaga

Based on the fact that you know justis- from justisministtar, you might also be able to deduce justislávdegotti .

The Sámi language that article was written in was Northern Sámiand it
is relatively easy to understand for Finnish speakers (and it only
has 6 cases for those of you still learning Finnish).

Here's some Skolt Sámithough; see how easy it is to understand it:

"Puärraz maainste Njuhčč’čeäppatjääu´rest da Njauddâm siidâst. Leša Maai´lm motstââvv, da täk čuõ´vves da mooččâs kue´stelm kook liâ vuu´dest. Ǩie´ssäiggsa joo´tti vä´ldd hie´lǩeld juâmasvuõđ tobddmõš da pei´vv kåå´tt ij luâštõõđ ni voops oudd čuõvvâd- da paakkasvuõđ innân pei´vven. Äi´ǧǧ mâânn aaibâs vuâmmšeǩâni ma´te kaappâstrââ´dd pe´ccelnallšem jiõnnummuš ku´ǩǩen u´cc jie´ǧǧest."

(http://www.luontoon.fi/binary.aspx?Sect ... &Item=8882)

[enk]

THere is purhaps also a greater tendency to use adessive for inland towns and inessive for seaside towns?

Both of your theories are faulty.

The easiest way to think about it is:

The inessive is used for towns that do not have a geographical body in
them, or at least one that the majority of people can recognize as being a
geographical body. The adessive is used then for the towns and cities that
do have a geographical body in them as using the inessive would mean
that you're in the actual geographical body:

Seinäjoella (in the town of Seinäjoki)
Seinäjoessa (in the Seinäjoki River)

This, of course, is only true for towns and cities. When you start
talking about the names of districts in towns and cities, then the inessive
is used:

Kivenlahdessa (in the district of Kivenlahti in Espoo)

-enk

[Hank W.]

Now I wonder is it Nowheremäessä or Nowheremäellä

[enk]

Now I wonder is it Nowheremäessä or Nowheremäellä

Follow the rules, Luke

-enk

[Aquila]

Sitat:

"The inessive is used for towns that do not have a geographical body in
them, or at least one that the majority of people can recognize as being a
geographical body. The adessive is used then for the towns and cities that
do have a geographical body in them as using the inessive would mean
that you're in the actual geographical body:

Seinäjoella (in the town of Seinäjoki)
Seinäjoessa (in the Seinäjoki River)
"

Your theory may explain certain cases, but all the examples sited so far fits better my explanations.

Tampere is an inland town, and faily small compared to Helsinki
Turku is a seaside town and somewhat greater than tampare

More examples:

Oulu - oulussa - seaside town
Kemi - kemissä - seaside
Poru - Porissa - seaside
Rovaniemellä - inland and small town


In this case "seinäjoki" means two things; A sity, and a river.

Seinäjoki is a small sity compared to for example Helsinki, and an inland city hence adessive.

But when you speak about the inside of the river Seinäjoki, you will naturally use inessive. But a river is a different object even though it has the same name as a town.

But if you speak about a bout sailing on that river you would say Saeinäjoella.

When you speak about districts, you will naturally use inessive, but a district is neither a town.

And Helsinki is big enoug to contain a lot of geografically body, and here you use inessive.

In all these examples, Finnish is a very Scandinavian language. What here is said about use of cases by towbs, lakes, districts you could say also about the use of prepositions in a Scandinavian language like NOrwegian or Swediah.

The use is somewhat unpredictable, but some hits can be given,

[enk]

The use is somewhat unpredictable, but some hits can be given,

It's actually not unpredictable in about 98% of the cases if you look
at the rules I gave.

So by your example, the following are incorrect:

Jämsässä
Jyväskylässä
et al

-enk

[raamv]

The thing with learning is not just sitting in a classroom and learning the partiivi and abssessive...
Its about holding a conversation..
I have not bothered to take any courses..
I listen to Finnish at work and at my home everyday..
I did not bother to "learn" the language seriously until then the beginning of this year..
In order to do that : Its Either it is to get to a class for 1-4 housrs every day or
the path that I am taking is this:
I ve asked certain colleagues of mine to talk to me in Finnish ONLY.
When I talk..its vaara Finnish ( sorry US KBD).. but I ask them to correct me and then respond to me in Englsih... At a certain point in the conversation, I stop and ask whether the Word's or sentence meaning is what it is...( confirmation)
Also, I ve asked ma SO for a 30 mins to 1 housr Finnish evening so I can practice at home after kids re asleep too.
Now, I am seriously "Reading" the morning newspaper instead of "browsing"..
Now, I also try to use Finnish at shops, phone converstaions with companies ( Even after I say puhu englanntia, mei yrittan puhu suomea) and my customer service has gone up the roof..
I found out that with small talk my vocabulary has sky-rocketed.
Now, This is the approach that "I am " taking and each one has their particular strength to learn the language and so has to shape things accordingly..

[Aquila]

What about

Joensuu - joensuussa

Does not this place have some geographical formation inside, but inessive is mostly used.

And what obvious geographical formation is there inside Tampere?

Actually, you cannot predict very well, only give certain hints.

And does it relly matter so much?

[Hank W.]

I have not bothered to take any courses..

Ja sen kyllä huomaa

[Hank W.]

And what obvious geographical formation is there inside Tampere?

Näsinneula?

[enk]

Joensuu - joensuussa

Does not this place have some geographical formation inside, but inessive is mostly used.

I apparently left out of what I said that I was referring
to the part that inflects, not the beginning part of the word.
My bad.

And what obvious geographical formation is there inside Tampere?

Actually, you cannot predict very well, only give certain hints.

It's ok, I know I can speak Finnish just fine and I can predict quite
easily which case to use. By all means, use your version.

And does it relly matter so much?

It does bother me when someone goes around with a halfbaked theory
trying to teach other people what the correct form would be when,
AFAIK, that person isn't even very capable in the language. We've
also had crackpots trying to find the elusive roots of the Finnish
language or its grammar in Turkish, Japanese, Korean, etc.

What are your qualifications anywho?

-enk

[Aquila]

You wrote: "It does bother me when someone goes around with a halfbaked theory
trying to teach other people what the correct form would be when,
AFAIK, that person isn't even very capable in the language."

And it bothers me when some arrogant intellectual sings out some principle that sound fine, but is really unusable in most but some selected cases.

Your principle about "geographical bodies" is as halfbaked as mine hints.