Metsä ja Puu - Tutkimus

[Rob A.]

I thought this might be of interest to some of you... A survey of Finniish attitudes towards the forests (In Finnish and English):

http://www.forest.fi/smyforest/foresten ... enDocument

This is what got me thinking about trees and forests and lead me to the site :

This past Sunday a rather sad event happened in Vancouver's large urban park...the biggest and oldest tree collapsed... A 1,000-year old Western Redcedar (Thuja plicata)... There was a windstorm, not an unsual event, but enough to end it all for this ancient tree...which the radio announcement I listened to, said would have been a seedling when Leif Eiriksson set up his "colony" at L'Anse-aux-Meadows, Newfoundland. (Also interesting to think the tree would have already been about 500 years old when Columbus "discovered" America.)

Here's the main link to the Finnish Forest Association site:

http://www.forest.fi/smyforest/foresten ... endocument

Lots of interesting information....including some beauitful black and white drawings of the major tree species found in Finnish forests...

Did you know that 2/3 of Finnish forests are pine?? ...that the next most common species is spruce. ...that about 50% of the forest volume is pine... That about 58% the forests (productive/low productive forests) are own by private individuals/families, about 29% by the state, and about 8% by companies?? Lots of other stuff, too...

[Rosamunda]

Did you know that 2/3 of Finnish forests are pine?? ...that the next most common species is spruce. ...that about 50% of the forest volume is pine... That about 58% the forests (productive/low productive forests) are own by private individuals/families, about 29% by the state, and about 8% by companies?? Lots of other stuff, too...

Yes. Of course we know that. It's like asking a Moroccan if he knows there is sand in the Sahara We are all surrounded by coniferous forests. Every school kid studies the flora of Finland (it's part of the national core curriculum) and the majority of local kids are also capable of identifying the most common plants. Nearly all Finns have access to some kind of a summer cabin (mökki) which typically would be on a small or large patch of forest. IIRC selling timber is taxable as capital income (the rates are lower than for personal income tax) and there are many govt sponsored programmes for forest management.


There is a lot of information on here too:

http://www.mmm.fi/fi/index/etusivu/metsat.html

[Karhunkoski]

Agreed Pen, like someone asking a Canadian if they knew what a maple leaf was?

[Rob A.]

Did you know that 2/3 of Finnish forests are pine?? ...that the next most common species is spruce. ...that about 50% of the forest volume is pine... That about 58% the forests (productive/low productive forests) are own by private individuals/families, about 29% by the state, and about 8% by companies?? Lots of other stuff, too...

Yes. Of course we know that. It's like asking a Moroccan if he knows there is sand in the Sahara We are all surrounded by coniferous forests. Every school kid studies the flora of Finland (it's part of the national core curriculum) and the majority of local kids are also capable of identifying the most common plants. Nearly all Finns have access to some kind of a summer cabin (mökki) which typically would be on a small or large patch of forest. IIRC selling timber is taxable as capital income (the rates are lower than for personal income tax) and there are many govt sponsored programmes for forest management.


There is a lot of information on here too:

http://www.mmm.fi/fi/index/etusivu/metsat.html

Hmmmm...nice of you to rain on my enthusiasm...I kind of thought my introduction had it covered... "I thought this might be of interest to some of you... " Obviously you weren't one of them... But there are lots of people outside of Finland who read these posts...I guess I was thinking about that when I started the thread... But nice of you to take the time to read my post...I tend to only read the posts I find interesting...But you should probably try to realize these forums are also frequented by people who are trying to learn about Finland...

My main interest in being here is to learn the language...and my philosophy on that is in order to learn a language well, you have to learn how the locals think and how they use the language... Otherwise you end up being just another Englishman sitting in Vantaa or Espoo, whining about why can't the Finns be more like the English, or contemplating such lingusitic "profundities" as the Finns saying they "eat" medicine, rather than "take" it, or "close" lights or whatever it is, rather than "switch" them off...

Anyway enough of that...Now, for those who are interested... I'm quite fascinated with tree and forests... It's a major part of my educational background... I know a fair bit about forests and forestry practices, particularly in western Canada... And I'm quite interested in forestry activities elsewhere...particularly northern areas like Finland with somewhat similar forests... British Columbia where I live has a rather complex forest environment...the wet coastal forests and the dry interior forests... But I could go on and on... If anyone's interested feel free to PM me... I'm always interested in talking about trees and forests.... And despite some of my posts, I'm actually a rather pleasant, easygoing guy...partcularly if people aren't boring me...

[Rob A.]

Agreed Pen, like someone asking a Canadian if they knew what a maple leaf was?

Ahh, yes...Mr. Bear Rapids... I guess it was a little like "asking a Canadian if they knew what a maple leaf was"...kind of like asking an Englishman (or whatever you are) if they know about...well I guess I better leave it right there... you fill in the gap...

But since you've brought up the "maple leaf"...here's a nice website...for those who are interested, of course..

http://www.massmaple.org/treeID.html

I was actually raised in a part of Canada that doesn't have any naturally occurring maple trees... a dry part of British Columbia... There were maple trees that had been planted as street trees, I learned early on they were exotics... I seem to recall the ones near my house were Norway Maples (Acer platanoides)... THere are two naturally occurring maples in the Vancouver area... the Bigleaf Maple (Acer macrophyllum)...with absoultely huge leaves...15cm-30cm across and some bigger...and at this time of year, you don't want those landing on your windshield...

Here's a wiki link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigleaf_maple

...the other is the Vine Maple (Acer circinatum)...with thin greenish contorted brances and small light green leaves:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vine_maple

[Rosamunda]

...But you should probably try to realize these forums are also frequented by people who are trying to learn about Finland...

You should probably try to realize these forums are frequented by people who don't speak Finnish, so if you trying to capture an audience for your instructive posts it might be an idea to post the title in English

"I thought this might be of interest to some of you... " Obviously you weren't one of them... But there are lots of people outside of Finland who read these posts...I guess I was thinking about that when I started the thread... But nice of you to take the time to read my post...I tend to only read the posts I find interesting.

Yes I read the post because I was interested: I am one of the private individuals who own 58% of Finland's forests and many of my weekends are spent working in the forest. In fact if anyone would like some hands-on information about Finnish forests - from someone who actually lives in Finland - then I too would be happy to share my knowledge.

BTW: I know this forum is frequented by people who wish to learn about Finland since I spend a lot of my time constructively answering threads for people asking for information.

[Mattlill2000]

I also own a "bit" of land, but I think you guys shouldn't shoot Rob A. down because he tried to contribute something. While most Finns have some sort of connection with this beautiful country, I suspect there are some readers here who have not experienced Finland outside of Keha III for example and information posted about the forests could be beneficial.
Yep its October and the daylight hours are dwindling fast.

[Rosamunda]

Didn't mean to shoot him down but first time I read his post it just struck me as very funny that someone who has never been to Finland was posting a thread telling everyone that there are lots of spruce and pine up here. I mean.... how many Finns can look out of their window and NOT see a spruce or a pine tree? Maybe a few Lapps above the tree line?

But fire away Rob A.. I'm sure there are plenty of folks who are interested in Finnish forests but as I said before.... if you are aiming your knowledge at a non-Finnish audience then best to title them in a language they can understand. Otherwise those people might miss something really really interesting

[Hank W.]

Interesting? Trees?
Count all trees on a drink a' kossu
kelacard no come and he wanna go home
count trees till the kelacard come
kelacard no come and he wanna go home
Come, Mr. Kela Mon, gimme some advance
kelacard no come and he wanna go home
It's six tree, seven tree, eight tree, bush!
kelacard no come and he wanna go home

[UKLFC]

You forgot about the odd hirvi, old lady, possibly a poro or two, and the obvious man with gun.

[EP]

I suspect there are some readers here who have not experienced Finland outside of Keha III

I suspect the same, and some of those readers may even be Finns. My generation is still one that has mainly grown up "in the country" where forests are just as important as fields. But now when people live mainly in towns that relationship is weaker. I think that "mökki culture" is the most important factor when people learn to live near nature. Without that many would be as alien to forests as most people from more southern hemispheres are.

[Rosamunda]

Yes but even in cities like Espoo (one of Finland's biggest cities and well inside Keha III) the forest is omnipresent; you can't get away from it. There are few if any densely populated high-rise zones where all vegetation has disappeared completely. In fact driving my niece and nephew back to our home in Espoo round Keha III when I met them at the airport this summer (their first trip to Finland) they were totally amazed by the trees... everywhere, you can't even count them.

BTW the natural vegetation inside Keha III is not just pine, spruce, juniper etc but also broadleaf deciduous forest. I have a nice book about Finnish "leaf" forest at the mökki (can't remember the exact title) that explains the extent of the "leaf" forest and shows where residual patches can be found. It is quite likely that a combination of global warming and forest clearance for construction will eliminate a lot of the coniferous forest in the south. And it will be interesting to see how areas of protected natural forest, like Nuuksio, change over the next few decennies. We have already noticed at our mökki that where we cut down spruce and pine, we have oak, hazlenut etc seeding themselves in significant numbers.

[raamv]

Agreed Pen, like someone asking a Canadian if they knew what a maple leaf was?

Well you'd be surprised these days..But they sure ll know about maple-leaf-syrup and the Maple-leafs ( Toronto)

[Rob A.]

Didn't mean to shoot him down but first time I read his post it just struck me as very funny that someone who has never been to Finland was posting a thread telling everyone that there are lots of spruce and pine up here. I mean.... how many Finns can look out of their window and NOT see a spruce or a pine tree? Maybe a few Lapps above the tree line?

But fire away Rob A.. I'm sure there are plenty of folks who are interested in Finnish forests but as I said before.... if you are aiming your knowledge at a non-Finnish audience then best to title them in a language they can understand. Otherwise those people might miss something really really interesting

My goodness... I don't want to get into useless forum p*ssing contest, but you are a rather odd person. I don't even think like that and I wouldn't even think of responding in such a manner to an outsider who is expressing an interest in some aspect of the country I'm living in... But, then, maybe it has something to do with you being an outsider, too...

In fact, in my job, depending on the issues, I'll often prefer to hire consultants from the US just for the simple fact they are outsiders and I'm more likely to get some valuable insights and different perspectives on local issues than by hiring local consultants to tell me the same old crap rehashed once again... But maybe I'm the odd one then...

Anyway I'll just carry on, and respond to the interesting stuff and try to ignore the boring stuff...

In your next post you talk a bit about forest succcession... I have, indeed, read about the "relic" populations of more southerly European trees species found in pockets along the south coast of Finland... I can't at the moment remember all that is there, but I believe oak and beech are the significant ones. I understand these forests were more widespread during the global warm period that scientitsts tell us occurred between about 800 and 1350 AD... It's almost a 'no-brainer' to assume it will happen again in the appropriate circumstances.

But one has to think about the typical forest succession patterns in different climatic areas. Here in the BC rain forest, the typical succession on scarified soils (bare to mineral soil) is fireweed and the like, then alder and other decidious species, then depending on local conditions including elevation...Douglas Fir or red cedar/hemlock and yellow cedar or other high elevation species....this can take along time, but in the absence of interference, it is an inexorable process... In the drier areas of the BC interior, it'll be pine ,and in the northerly areas, spruce... I don't yet know the typical forest succession regimes in Finland...but I'm confident it will be some variation on this same theme.

And there can be other things going on...I remember reading a long time ago that red oak forests in Ontario were still slowly spreading their range northward in response to the end of the last ice age...oaks, of course tend to spread rather slowly... And I've also read that the Western Redcedar...such a dominant species along the coast from the Alaska panhandle to northern Calfornia, first entered British Columbia 4,000 years ago, again, in response to the end of the ice age... But there's lots of this kind of stuff, if one's interested... The Queen Charlotte Islands, off the BC coast, were never glaciated during the last ice age and became a botanical refugia...and that is quite obvious when you visit the place....

[Mattlill2000]

we have oak, hazlenut etc seeding themselves in significant numbers.

A friend of mine has built a Viking Ship replica which was docked last year at Seurasaari. He claimed at during the Vikings heyday, southern Finland had an abundance of Oaks which were mostly all cut down for ship construction and that is one reason why there are so little oak today.

Maple-leafs ( Toronto)

Go Leafs Go brother!

you are a rather odd person

Nah. Penelopes great!