School Shooting in Finland!

[EP]

Yes, but it is extremely rare, and according to this Wikipedia extrait, extremely hard to diagnose:

"Miehillä skitsofrenia puhkeaa yleensä noin 20–28-vuotiaana ja naisilla 24–32-vuotiaana. Sairaus on mahdollinen myös vanhemmalla väestöllä sekä huomattavan nuorilla henkilöillä, jopa alle 10-vuotiailla. Kuitenkin se on äärimmäisen harvinaista näin nuorella iällä ja oireet voidaan helposti sekoittaa autismiin tai aspergeriin."

[kay30]

The Amber alert, Dateline's, "To Catch a Predator", metal detectors in schools (even in the supposed good neighborhoods way out in the burbs, far from any inner cities), security guards and in some cases police officers patrolling schools, mall shootings, workplace shootings, school shootings, gang violence, kidnappings, mass murder, serial killers, "stranger danger", carjackings, etc... All things that are very rarely (if ever) heard of in Finland, yet you can hear about daily on the news in America.

Right, but do any of those things (school patrols, metal detectors, etc.) *really* protect kids? Not really, if someone wants to do something they can be damn resourceful. Close a door and they just get in through a window. At best, it offers a sense of false security. At worst, they just scare the hell out of everyone.

I'm not disagreeing with you here, for sure there are a LOT of problems in the US...but I also wonder how much of seems more scary because of things like that as well as TV and the need to sell newspapers and 24 hr CNN newscrawl? And when you have 300+ million people, vs. 5.5, of course you have more nutcases running around.

What is crazy to me is that many American's are so afraid of "stranger danger" yet they let their kids eat whatever crap they want, which is statistically far more likely to hurt them in the long run. Meanwhile, Finland is a reasonably safe place, as long as you don't drink yourself to death when you get older. If people are afraid to raise kids in America due to crime, at the same time I would be very afraid of a child I raise here having a drinking problem, due to social pressures.

That being said, America is full of nutcases but you sort of choose your poison no matter where you live.

[ScubaGirl]

btw, I just read that the shooter just died

@kay, I agree 100% about the fear factor you're speaking of. That's part of my problem with American society. Everywhere you turn there is a warning about this and that and everything will kill you and nothing is ever safe. I don't want to raise my child in a society where people are afraid every little thing. It's a nation of fear and that in and of itself is just not healthy.

[ScubaGirl]

Wow, he died at Töölö hospital. That's just 2 bus stops from my place.

[mrshourula]

Photos and the writing of the young man are showing up on various web sites. Here is a link to one if you wish to read:

http://oddculture.com/2007/11/07/the-pe ... manifesto/

[LilWabbit]

(The following musings should not be read as reference to the Tuusula incident, but rather the overall phenomenon on teenage gun-violence)

The underpinnings of teenage gun-violence is not advanced mathematics. Unravelling the mystery of gun-slinging pimple-faces requires not probing psychoanalyses by the Oracle of Delphi, nor a special theme season by the almighty Dr. Phil. Common sense may in fact offer fresh glimpses into the problem although, of late, common sense has not been all that common.

For a non-psychotic 15-year-old to blow his classmates to kingdom come requires by logical necessity at least the following four ingredients:

1. Serious lack of self-control (thanks in part to a culture of over-indulgence and to over-permissive child-rearing)

2. A personal grievance of some sort (sometimes even justified) involving the school, classmates and staff-members.

3. A contempt or even hatred towards the whole human race prompted by a dismal apocalyptic ideology (thanks in part to the failure of parents in providing meaningful purpose in life).

4. Violent examples and influence, including one or a combination of the following:
- child abuse or domestic violence
- violence in the neighbourhood or society at large
- previous cases of teenage gun-violence widely reported in the media
- over-exposure to TV
- over-exposure to violent computer games

5. A firearm

Any of the above factors alone will not result in gun-violence. It would therefore be too simplistic to reduce the problem merely to that of gun-control, computer games or television. Any slippered geek obsessed with gory computer games would instantly deny violent computer games having any role in school shootings just as the average recreational elk hunter from Kuusamo would jump to declare gun-control as entirely irrelevant to gun-violence. It would however run diametrically counter to both fact and reason to seriously claim that shooting sprees occur without guns, violence without examples of violence or out-of-control behaviour without the absence of self-restraint.

In fact, even if only one of the above ingredients is missing, a 15-year-old will not blow his classmates' brains to smithereens. A combination of all the five factors acting simultaneously is required to trigger such outbreaks. Were society to address merely the symptoms of the problem of teenage gun-violence, the removal of one of the four ingredients may, in fact, well prove sufficient to prevent such shooting sprees while failing entirely to deal with the root-causes. The remaining factors are bound to find alternative avenues of expression, whether in the form of stabbing incidents (instead of shootings), social alienation (where some self-control exists), classroom ostracism, drug abuse or suicidal tendencies. Some of the alternative expressions may be more insidious and less conspicuous, yet no less alarming.

The manner in which these factors feature in different cultures (European, American, non-Western) remains a much broader question. The prominence of any one of these factors in one culture hardly implies their non-existence in others. The illusion of Finland as a safe haven and America as the source of all modern social ills is as harmful as it is erroneous.

The problem is primarily a Western one, not only an American one, and increasingly a global one. Finns should not be surprised that such acts of heinous violence have finally beached its shores, nor should they exclusively blame the outside world for it.

At the risk of sounding preachy, teenage gun-violence is in itself a symptom of a well-rooted and fanatical culture of self that by its very nature results in the breakdown of morality and the loss of respect to rules and standards. Such heinous acts are the natural offspring of a culture of unchecked individualism where any resistance to the will of the child is deemed anti-liberal or grossly suppressive towards the creative tendencies of an innocent child. Education of the child may not be the only factor in the prevention of such incidents in the future, but I sincerely believe it is the most powerful and effective one.

Hokies, time to cork it. Thanks (for those who have soldiered on this far) for bearing with my ramblings. I will gracefully step down from the soap-box and go watch a fantasy flick to escape some more from reality...

[Rosamunda]

No.... not obvious. Otherwise how would he have got through 18 years in a welfare state, in daily contact with maybe a dozen different teachers, routine medical visits at school, not to mention all the other OPO, counselling etc etc that high school kids go through?

The best coverage was on channel 3. They interviewed Salli Saari, a well-known youth psychiarist (ehem, whom I also met when I had some troubles in my early 20s). She had studied the boy´s messages in YouTube, and her diagnoses was schizophrenia.

Yes, it was an interesting discussion. She also said that he had been crying out for help and not got the help he needed.

[Hank W.]

5. A firearm
...
In fact, even if only one of the above ingredients is missing, a 15-year-old will not blow his classmates' brains to smithereens.

You need access to the internet and a "home chemistry" kit, and the whole mall is blown into smithereens.

[Pete]

I've seen his videos and the one where he shows the school and 'announces' his intentions is quite chilling indeed. How could something like that not be taken seriously? His manifesto is also very disturbing, he obviously spent far too much time mulling on issues in his life that he could not control. Having the gun in his hand must have been his way of righting those 'wrongs'...
What makes me angry though is that he didn't have the courage of his convictions and hang around to face the aftermath of his actions. That always !"#¤% me with these types, they always take the easy way out and leave so many families to wonder at the senselessness of it all.

BTW I could post a link to the videos if anyone is interested, however i'm not sure whether or not the admins would like it so much.

[Hank W.]

(thanks in part to the failure of parents in providing meaningful purpose in life).

Don't know about that. The parents seem to be having a purpose. They're running a recording studio.

[raamv]

how many threads is this being discussed at ?
Well IMO, this seems to be an isolated case of someone gone awrily bonkers..and took to the extreme...
Analyzing this guy aint going to solve the problem in general..
There could be Some lessons learned..but then These kind of incidents are pretty hard to prevent no matter what amount of precaution you take..
and the debates only lead to what happens in the US, a debate on Gun control or health care results in the discussion of religion and politics..

[kay30]

It's so easy to try to blame the parents...after all, we must blame someone, eh?

However, none of us knows what was going on in his home life. Think back to when you were a teen. Did you listen and do everything your parents told you? Was everything you did a reflection on your parents? I highly doubt it. Sometimes the nicest parents in the world, through not fault of their own, can have a child with a lot of problems.

I don't think this kind of stuff happens due to a lack of morality in the world (whatever morality is and whoever defines it). I think sometimes people just turn psychotic due to a mental illness and this is the result. You can't predict these things and you can't stop them. It's just the way it is.

[sammy]

In case someone wishes to follow the memorial service - it's directly on-line now (13.00-14.00) at

http://akastreaming.yle.fi/vp/fiyle/no_geo/live_c.asx

[fauxfinndotcom]

Does anyone know details of memorial services being held elsewhere in Finland (if there are any)?

[sinikettu]

Does anyone know details of memorial services being held elsewhere in Finland (if there are any)?

http://www.yle.fi/news/id74462.html