Negativity all cleared up now a Kela question

hychamaz · Post by **hychamaz** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:34 pm

Thank you everyone for your responses on my previous question. Since I am here with my pregnant Finnish wife, I don't speak Finnish, and the job market doesnt look too good according to the vast majority of you for me (just my B.S. and no long experience), I will then look into the integration courses and Kela. If I have read other posts correctly it looks as though unemployment plus taking the courses would yield about 25 euros a day. Is that about right? I have had my residence permit for about a month now (I have been here for 4 months but stupidly waited until the end of my 3 months to apply) and was wondering how the unemployment and integration money works. If I start taking the classes ASAP will I not receive anything from Kela until I have had my residence permit for 6 months?? or will I get something before from either unemployment or from integration? Just want to clear up how this will all work. Thanks a million.

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Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:39 pm

Yes well, you're not "unemployed" before you go to the office to register yourself. So I'd go get myself "in the system" even if you won't be getting anything right now. The process takes some time and sometimes if you wait, they'll make you wait for their period of time as they start counting from the day you were entered into their system and not the date you did something. And sometimes of course the opposite is true

blaugrau · Post by **blaugrau** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:12 pm

just to clarify, so you do have your resident permit, and you have also been at the maistraatti and got a "henkilötunnus"=ID number=insurance number?

(If so, then what's left is to register with Kela, then go to the unemployment office and apply for the integration programme...)

hychamaz · Post by **hychamaz** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:25 pm

Yes I have all of that. I also wanted to say that I will be looking for a job alos during thi stime. I hate the thought of being a free-loader.

Hank W. · Post by **Hank W.** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:50 pm

Well, the thing you need to remember is that this is Finland

It also means you're not allowed to "think", but rather "fit in the box" when dealing with the bureaucracy. If a,b,c then also d. If you mix up c, b and then want d, you cannot get it as the missing a confuses the heck out of the bureaucracy. And you do not want them to be confused. Right papers, right office, right order and the "system works". Have a "think" in between and its headbutting a brick wall.

hychamaz · Post by **hychamaz** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:13 pm

Hank W wrote: Yes well, you're not "unemployed" before you go to the office to register yourself. So I'd go get myself "in the system" even if you won't be getting anything right now. The process takes some time and sometimes if you wait, they'll make you wait for their period of time as they start counting from the day you were entered into their system and not the date you did something. And sometimes of course the opposite is true

This still is not clear to me. Are you saying that the 6 month period has nothing to do with your residence permit? Does unemployment money not kick in until 6 months after registering with the employment office? If I take the integration courses does that mean I will be taking them for 6 months before unemployment money kicks in? Or does one get the extra 8 euros for taking the integration courses until the 17 euro unemployment kicks in. Or do you get both at the same time. How will this work. Thanks again.

debonaire · Post by **debonaire** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:05 pm

This still is not clear to me. Are you saying that the 6 month period has nothing to do with your residence permit? Does unemployment money not kick in until 6 months after registering with the employment office? If I take the integration courses does that mean I will be taking them for 6 months before unemployment money kicks in? Or does one get the extra 8 euros for taking the integration courses until the 17 euro unemployment kicks in. Or do you get both at the same time. How will this work. Thanks again.

Ok...so from your earlier posts i gather that you have already obtained your residence permit,social security number and the KELA card...Now you are in the system..
Once you have registered with the local employment office,they will notify KELA about it...You have to go to KELA to fill some form os that you would be entitled to receive the monetary assistance...The waiting period is one week after you have registered with the local employment office...After one week you are entitled to receive money from kela on account of being unemployed...The interval between successive payments is about 21-22 days...
And if you are engaged in some labor market training which includes finnish language course, you are entitled to receive a further of 8€/day(taxfree),on top of your regular unemployment money...

hychamaz · Post by **hychamaz** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:28 pm

Sorry but I am still not 100% clear. I have been told that unemployment does not kick in for 6 months. This could be sooner??? If not and I am already taking the integration classes, does that mean I must wait for the unemployment money and only initially receive the 8 euros a day for the courses. Thank you again so much.

blaugrau · Post by **blaugrau** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:21 pm

ok i'm speculating here only, so maybe check with the employment office to get a more reliable answer, but I assume that the time until you get the money depends on what kind of money you're actually applying: if you want to claim *unemployment benefits* and are officially registered as job seeker, and you have quit your previous job on your own initiative in your homecountry before coming to Finland, then they make you wait until you receive anything.

However, if you apply for the integration programme, then you're on "labour market training", and this should make a difference and speed up the time until you get the money.

But as I said, doublecheck with the unemployment office (or someone who's more knowledgable than me)

debonaire · Post by **debonaire** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:09 pm

ok i'm speculating here only, so maybe check with the employment office to get a more reliable answer, but I assume that the time until you get the money depends on what kind of money you're actually applying: if you want to claim *unemployment benefits* and are officially registered as job seeker, and you have quit your previous job on your own initiative in your homecountry before coming to Finland, then they make you wait until you receive anything.

Is it so? I was under the impression that once you get your residence permit with right to work and then register with the local employment offfice,you are entitled to get the unemployment benefits one week after the date of registration...
I know this coz i received unemployment benefits for a month until finally I got a job...I registered with the local employment office and they sent a mail to KELA notifying that I am a registered jobseeker...KELA started to pay me after a waiting period of one week...I am not sure about the job thing in the homecountry because they never asked me about it...
And yes,I remeber the first thing the guy at the employment office did was to place me in the Integration programme.

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:13 pm

Well there EU..where one in Dole needs to be in DOLE when one moves here to claim from KELA the equivalent dole from that country...
If one quits any job somewhere inside EU, then they are on quarintine upto 3 months ( when they come here )....as far as KELA is concerned....
if non-Eu, you are in Dole when you enter the system IF and only IF you are getting resident permit based on marriage/co-habitation..

debonaire · Post by **debonaire** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:22 pm

raamv wrote:Well there EU..where one in Dole needs to be in DOLE when one moves here to claim from KELA the equivalent dole from that country...
If one quits any job somewhere inside EU, then they are on quarintine upto 3 months ( when they come here )....as far as KELA is concerned....
if non-Eu, you are in Dole when you enter the system IF and only IF you are getting resident permit based on marriage/co-habitation..

Well i am aware of the rules regarding EU and Non-EU persons concerning employment...
My point is that hychamez,a non-EU if i am correct, has got his residence permit based on marraige since his wife is a finnish citizen...So why he has to wait for 6 months like he has said,to claim unemployment benefits...
I guess the rule that applied to me would also apply to him since we are both non-EU...

interleukin · Post by **interleukin** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:58 pm

So why he has to wait for 6 months like he has said,to claim unemployment benefits...

This is the standard "quarantine" time if you have not previously worked in Finland (within the last 10 years or so) or if you have not transferred your EU unemplyment status over to Finland.

This has nothing to do with him being a foreigner, I know a Finnish citizen moving back to Fin and being in the same situation.

The marrying a Finnish woman part lets him stay in Finland, it does not mean that he can get unemployment benefits without having worked in Finland (=paying taxes).

/interleukin

debonaire · Post by **debonaire** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:58 am

interleukin wrote:
So why he has to wait for 6 months like he has said,to claim unemployment benefits...
This is the standard "quarantine" time if you have not previously worked in Finland (within the last 10 years or so) or if you have not transferred your EU unemplyment status over to Finland.

This has nothing to do with him being a foreigner, I know a Finnish citizen moving back to Fin and being in the same situation.

The marrying a Finnish woman part lets him stay in Finland, it does not mean that he can get unemployment benefits without having worked in Finland (=paying taxes).

/interleukin

Ok...So then he should join the integration programme for foreigners where the amount is equivalent to what you get as unemployment benefits...Thats what i did...I never worked in Finland before and I got paid for a month till i eventually got employed...And i only had to wait for 7 days after registering as a jobseeker with the local employment office..

hychamaz · Post by **hychamaz** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:24 pm

Alright, I went down to the employment office today and registered. When I mentioned a "quarantine" time (well my wife did all of the talking in Finnsh) they said there is not one. Today just put me in the system. They are now going to send me a letter with a date and time for an appointment to meet 1 to 1 with someone from the Employment office. I will then discuss with that person what I want to do, give them my University diploma, and see how they can help. As far as any "set time limits" for receiving money, they could not give me any. Once I meet with this person for the appointment they said that all of my information is sent to some review board in Helsinki where a decision is made on when the benefit kicks in. It seems to me that everyone who has posted here has had something different happen to them or a different opinion. Perhaps this is true because as they implied, everyone is on a case to case basis.

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