Bizarre figures on mobile phone vs fixed line penetration

[otyikondo]

A recent Eurostat survey, reported by the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7116599.stm) throws up one baffling piece of information.

If you go to the source material (always go to the source material), you will find that:

Finland and Sweden were (natch) both early adopters of mobile telephony, with penetration figures in 1996 of 28 and 29 per cent. Top of the class.

Finland and Sweden both have slightly higher than 100% penetration for mobiles now (2005).

Sweden had a very high incidence (68%) of fixed lines per 100 inhabitants in 1996, while Finland's figure was also well above the European norm at 55.

By 2005, both countries' fixed line figures had declined - Sweden's to 58, and Finland's even more, to 41 per 100 inhabitants.

So far so good.

But then you see that "Households having mobile phone access but no fixed telephone access" for Finland is 47%, while the Swedish figure is... wait for it... 0%.

So Finland is second only to Lithuania (48% of households without), while Sweden is off the map at the other end.

How the hell do they arrive at figures like this, and why the hell don't they comment on the strangeness (read: the numbers suck) of it?

Does anyone know of a good reason (legislation, cost, etc....) why Swedes have not abandoned their fixed lines at all, while nearly half of Finnish households have?

I think Eurostat should be told. I'd quite like to know, too.

[Karhunkoski]

Does anyone know of a good reason (legislation, cost, etc....) why Swedes have not abandoned their fixed lines at all, while nearly half of Finnish households have?

Now this is a shot in the dark, even if you don't admire Bruce and the gangs' musical genius....

Perhaps in Seden, you have to have a landline connection contractto run ADSL (as you do in the UK). In Finland you don't?

[Rosamunda]

Maybe fixed lines are ***FREE*** in Sweden....

Just guessing.

Or.....


The price for a standard letter to an international destination within the EU was highest in Sweden (€1.19)

...maybe they use their fixed lines for calling abroad (cheaper than a stamp) (and cheaper than using mobile to call international).

Otherwise, dunno.

[otyikondo]

Does anyone know of a good reason (legislation, cost, etc....) why Swedes have not abandoned their fixed lines at all, while nearly half of Finnish households have?

Now this is a shot in the dark, even if you don't admire Bruce and the gangs' musical genius....

Perhaps in Seden, you have to have a landline connection contractto run ADSL (as you do in the UK). In Finland you don't?

I like your style Karhunkoski, even if your music sucks big ass. This sounds like a plausible starting point. To be honest I hadn't even thought I could have had ADSL without a fixed line - how's it done?

The sub-text of my post still stands, however. Why is it these statistical analyses never react to apparent absurdities and EXPLAIN them, or "go after" them to try to find out WHY they are there? I wrote to the geezer at Eurostat just now with much the same complaint. The problem is that most media sources (like the Beeb) won't even get so far as looking at the data in any detail, but will just do as they always do and pick the "winners" and "losers" and turn it into a beauty pageant. Though of course there aren't necessarily any "losers" in these stats.

[Tiwaz]

Does anyone know of a good reason (legislation, cost, etc....) why Swedes have not abandoned their fixed lines at all, while nearly half of Finnish households have?

Now this is a shot in the dark, even if you don't admire Bruce and the gangs' musical genius....

Perhaps in Seden, you have to have a landline connection contractto run ADSL (as you do in the UK). In Finland you don't?

I like your style Karhunkoski, even if your music sucks big ass. This sounds like a plausible starting point. To be honest I hadn't even thought I could have had ADSL without a fixed line - how's it done?

The sub-text of my post still stands, however. Why is it these statistical analyses never react to apparent absurdities and EXPLAIN them, or "go after" them to try to find out WHY they are there? I wrote to the geezer at Eurostat just now with much the same complaint. The problem is that most media sources (like the Beeb) won't even get so far as looking at the data in any detail, but will just do as they always do and pick the "winners" and "losers" and turn it into a beauty pageant. Though of course there aren't necessarily any "losers" in these stats.

Phoneline will be there in terms of physical wire, after all at least I had to pay to have them put the damn thing between pole and house back in the sticks, but there is no telephone number connected to you. Thus, no landline contract. You can have ADSL contract but that does not count as landline.

[otyikondo]

Phoneline will be there in terms of physical wire, after all at least I had to pay to have them put the damn thing between pole and house back in the sticks, but there is no telephone number connected to you. Thus, no landline contract. You can have ADSL contract but that does not count as landline.

Thank you. Now to find out if this arrangement is not acceptable in Sweden. Or if ADSL is counted as a landline there...

[MagicJ]

I'm sure Jukka Aho is devising an answer for you while i type, i just thought i'd fill some time until he arrives...............

[Jukka Aho]

I'm sure Jukka Aho is devising an answer for you while i type, i just thought i'd fill some time until he arrives...............

Thanks for trusting in me, but the only thing I can contribute to resolving this mystery is that Sonera (aka The Company That Was Formerly Known As “Telecom Finland”, and before breaking up with the postal service, Posti- ja telelaitos) has been getting rid of its landlines in the remote areas and replacing them with GSM-based technology (i.e., installing GSM-POTS gateway devices in people’s houses.)

This technology appears to the user as if it was an ordinary landline – the phone number is the same, the billing is the same, and you can use the old phones connected to the normal phone outlets around the house – but all the calls are in fact translated to GSM calls by the gateway box.

But that trend is not enough to explain those numbers, and ordinary non-technically oriented people using that kind of arrangement would be likely to check the wrong box in those kind of questionnaires, anyway.

[otyikondo]

I'm sure Jukka Aho is devising an answer for you while i type, i just thought i'd fill some time until he arrives...............

What do you think, MagicJ? (Good call, btw.) Was Mr. Aho's answer satisfactory? What would you give it on a scale of ten?

My vote is 9 for diligence, 7 for attainment. I will refrain from giving a mark for artistic interpretation this time.

Fair point about Sonera's doings, but it still doesn't explain the Swedish zero.

P.S. Eurostat haven't replied yet. Still at lunch I think.

[Karhunkoski]

Does anyone know of a good reason (legislation, cost, etc....) why Swedes have not abandoned their fixed lines at all, while nearly half of Finnish households have?

Now this is a shot in the dark, even if you don't admire Bruce and the gangs' musical genius....

Perhaps in Seden, you have to have a landline connection contractto run ADSL (as you do in the UK). In Finland you don't?

I like your style Karhunkoski, even if your music sucks big ass. This sounds like a plausible starting point. To be honest I hadn't even thought I could have had ADSL without a fixed line - how's it done?

Those felching geriatrics still know how to erm, rock.

To clarify my point though:

e.g. UK - you pay around a tenner a month to have a fixed landline from BT and they give you a telephone number, you then run your ADSL (from whichever ISP) through this line. So officially you have, "fixed telephone access". (perhaps Sweden has the same system????)

now take..

e.g. Finland - you can run your ADSL through your telephone line without having having to pay the "fixed landline fee" and you don't get a telephone number, you just pay the ISP for the ADSL access. So officially you don't have "fixed telephone access".

[MagicJ]

I'm sure Jukka Aho is devising an answer for you while i type, i just thought i'd fill some time until he arrives...............

What do you think, MagicJ? (Good call, btw.) Was Mr. Aho's answer satisfactory? What would you give it on a scale of ten?

My vote is 9 for diligence, 7 for attainment. I will refrain from giving a mark for artistic interpretation this time.

Admitting he didn't know the answer was a bit of a shocker but once i'd got over that i realised his answer was coherent (as always) and on cue. I however will have to mark him down on this occasion due to the distinct lack of links. Poor form i'd say, i'll give 7.5. Could do better.

[raamv]

Hint: Sweden now offers all other digital services bundled with fixed line ( Its happening here albeit slow..Finland lags Sweden in Mobile broadband adoption..BTW) So fixed line for mobile is not counted as fixed line but as digital line ( DSL, IPTV)

[Juha H.]

Has the role of Skype been considered at all?

[otyikondo]

Hint: Sweden now offers all other digital services bundled with fixed line ( Its happening here albeit slow..Finland lags Sweden in Mobile broadband adoption..BTW) So fixed line for mobile is not counted as fixed line but as digital line ( DSL, IPTV)

Thank you for the hint. However, this is now, that was then. Was this situation evident in 2005 and 2006, when the figures date from? Was there a good reason then for the 40-point difference in the numbers?

MagicJ. I'm sure I heard some booing from the crowd when your marks went up.

P.S. Still no reply from Brussels. Lengthy dinner of moules marinières washed down with a few Chimays.

[raamv]

Has the role of Skype been considered at all?

For what??
They dont care about how you access ( dialup, cables, DSL mobile broadband hspa, wimax etcI)
So why bring an unnecessary element in this picture?