schooö system explanation

[bill]

I am an american married to a finnish woman with two kids. We have been here sometime having lived previously in the US for many years.

We are in the process oif selecting a school for our son in Espoo and I have never been able to find someone to explain the entire process to me until yesterday when I was able to put all the information together, and here it is for all of you that might be going through the same process.

There are english schools, bilingual school and finnish only schools. They are ranked in this order when it comes to prestige though everyone likes to say that offer the same quality education. However the process for admission clearly tell another story.

If your first choice is an english school like komeetta there are two tests: an aptitude test and a language test. the aptitude part may be taken in either finnish or english. the language test is in english. if the child does well in the aptitude test and language then the child is accepted to the school of his/her choice. the children may be redirected to other schools if one of the school fills first and the child does not have top scores. If the child does well in the aptitude test but poorly on the language then the child has an opportunity to apply to a bilingual school.

If your first choice is a bilingual school then there is only an aptitude test in finnish. If the child does well in the aptitude test then the child can go to the bilingual school, but if the child does poorly, then the child is sent to a finnish school. Even if the child is a superstar in the aptitude test and fluent in english, you cannot choose to go to an english school if your first selection was a bilingual education. This is important to understand.

This is what I refer to as prestige. You can "downgrade" from an english school to a bilingual school to a finnish school, but you cannot "upgrade" from a bilingual school to an english school or from a finnish school to a bilingual school.

I'll refrain to make comments about which school is best and what system is best since that is always a hot topic and everyone has different opinios. One thing is for sure: the application is confusing to ask questions because if you choose wrong there no ways of changing later on.

cheers

[Rosamunda]

Thanks for posting that information. I think you will find that most of that information has been posted on this forum before by other parents who have been through that process. There are frequently threads about Komeetta and Postipuu on here. I agree with you that Espoo City doesn't do a great job of publishing the info in English.

One comment: I have a son in Komeetta and there are at least two kids in his class who have transferred in from Tähtiniitty. The main reason why kids cannot "upgrade" is space. Komeetta and Postipuu are usually full.

By the way. There are some changes in 2008.

- There is now a common language test for all children applying to English schools in Helsinki, Espoo and Vantaa. This means that children who wish to enter first grade in an English language school in the capital region all sit the same exam (not all in at same place, applications still go direct to the schools, I think the deadline is this month, soon).

- There is also a common language test for kids transferring in to HEV English language schools in higher grades from abroad or from other schools in Finland (eg if you return to FInland with a 12 year old)

- It is no longer possible to choose which bilingual primary school you send your kids to (at least in Espoo). The children take the exam and are then allocated to a bilingual school (Tähtiniitty, Jalavapuisto, Kilonpuisto?). The details of this were discussed at the last EETU meeting in December. More info on http://www.eetu.fi

Generally if you need information about English language schooling in Espoo then the EETU meetings (which are open to all) are a good place to go. Alternatively, most of the English language schools have active PTAs.

Finally, I would just like to point out that the "aptitude" test you refer to is a school readiness test. All children take it when they are 6yrs old. Schools are not allowed to select students based on their aptitude. However, the bilingual and English language schools DO NOT have qualified bilingual special ed teachers. There is no support available for English speaking children who have learning difficulties. This is starting to change (EETU campaigned for changes) and Espoon Kaupunki is now starting to allocate budgets for special ed support in English language schools. Some English mother tongue children in Komeetta are now receiving dedicated special ed. This is the main reason why the English language schools are careful about accepting children.

Given that the English language/bilingual schools are over-subscribed there has to be a selection process of some kind. There are many ways you can influence how this takes place.
- Attend EETU meetings (I sometimes post them on here, but you can find them on http://www.eetu.fi)
- Join a school board (I am on the School Board of Espoo International School)
- Participate in the regular on-line surveys that are conducted by Espoo city and also by the Ministry of Education
(last year there was a big survey organised by the Min of Foreign Affairs and the Min of Education, I linked to it on this forum)

I would be happy to answer any other questions you have about schooling in Espoo!


EDIT: I just realised I wrote all this before: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27439&p=247337#p247337
Penny

[Rosamunda]

One other point...

Children who are in Finnish language education may take English mother tongue as an additional subject for 2h per week (this is according to the national core curriculum). In Espoo I believe 19 different languages are taught in the Mother Tongue language programme. There is probably an on-line application form, otherwise the forms are available from the schools. I can put you in touch with the English teacher if you need it. Children who are in English language education do not qualify for these extra lessons.


Finally, just for info. The National Core Curriculum for comprehensive schooling can be downloaded free (in Finnish) from http://www.minedu.fi . An English language version is available (I think it is about 35 euro) details on the Min Edu site. It covers the curriculum from grades 1-9.

[bill]

- It is no longer possible to choose which bilingual primary school you send your kids to (at least in Espoo). The children take the exam and are then allocated to a bilingual school (Tähtiniitty, Jalavapuisto, Kilonpuisto?). The details of this were discussed at the last EETU meeting in December. More info on http://www.eetu.fi

I could be wrong, but I believe this is no longer the case. In our application we were asked to rank which bilingual schools we would be interested in putting our child in.

[Rosamunda]

I went to the EETU meeting in December (just a few weeks ago) and this was announced as "NEW". IOW parents used to be able to chose and now they can't. I checked on the EETU website but the Powerpoint presentation from that last meeting has not yet been uploaded. My 3 boys are all in school so we are not going through the admissions procedure any more but I have a meeting at Espoo International this week so I will ask for some clarifications. I'll let you know.

I'm sure any preferences would be taken into account, and of course it would be totally unreasonable to expect a 7 yr old to bus up to Kilo if he lives in Olari (especially since the bus connections between Olari and Kilo seriously stink anyway).

BTW, are you familiar with the entrance exam? Have they given you any idea of what it includes?

[Rosamunda]

Has been a good choice all around except that I'm now the one who's keeping him up to par with his monolingual Canadian peers regarding his English skills. No easy feat by any means.

Yes, all my ex-pat friends who chose this option have been very happy with the outcomes.

BTW, you are entitled to the 2h week MT English for your son. Usually a minimum number of 3 is required to start up a group. The teacher will be a native English speaker (I was teaching on this programme in Espoo in 2003 but only for one year). It would be an opportunity for your son to meet peers he has something in common with!

The application form should be somewhere on http://www.turku.fi if not, call the koulutuskeskus.

[bill]

BTW, are you familiar with the entrance exam? Have they given you any idea of what it includes?

Wow, thanks for asking , but No. Any ideas will help

Ranting...

It seems like in Finland they do not tell you anything unless you ask for it specifically. I guess that is why it took me so long to figure out exactly this f***ing process and how to correctly fill out the application.

Sirpa Wihuri was very helpful but the the Tahtiniitty principal was out on the weeds

At this point I hope my child does well at whatever he needs to do. If he doesn't make it, it is not the end of the world.

[Hank W.]

It seems like in Finland they do not tell you anything unless you ask for it specifically.

Of course nobody told you that, as you didn't ask... how did we say it now, all in chorus "Welcome to Finland"

[Rosamunda]

BTW, are you familiar with the entrance exam? Have they given you any idea of what it includes?

Wow, thanks for asking , but No. Any ideas will help

Good breakfast before you go and take a sandwich and a box of juice. There is a one-on-one interview between one of the teachers and the child. The teachers have been doing this for years and really make an effort to make the kids relaxed. Some kids clam up and I know the schools do their best to give all the kids a fair chance. The interview tests general vocabulary and will mostly ask the child about himself, what s/he does, enjoys doing, maybe about the family etc. Maybe the teacher will ask the child to describe something. It does not test any academic knowledge (not expected to name the planets in alphabetical order), just general vocabulary. I can't remember too well but it probably lasts 15 mins or so. There are several teachers interviewing at the same time but if you're unlucky you might have to wait an hour or more for your turn. There have been circa 80 applicants at komeetta alone in the past but I think the numbers have dwindled in recent years.

There is also a listening comprehension test (in fact I think the listening comprehension is done first). All the children are in one room for this. I think this is like a dictation (I have never sat in on this but my youngest did the test twice (2002/2003?)* and told me about it afterwards). The teacher will describe a scene and the children have to draw it. For example, "There is a big house with four windows and a blue door and there is grey smoke coming out of the chimney. There is a black cat with whiskers near the house and an apple tree in the garden......." I'm sure it is pretty slow so the kids have plenty of time to draw. The test did NOT require the child to read or write (except maybe their name), I don't think that aspect has changed. Not sure, but I think the "dictation" lasted almost an hour.

But, as I said before, this year there is a *new* common test with Helsinki and Vantaa this year. So it could be that the format has changed a little. When you think about it though, there are not 101 ways to test kids who can't read and write.

* My youngest sat the tests for the first time when he was 6. He was interviewed by Sirpa and the two of them ended up speaking French which was his first language at the time!!! He resat the following year when he was 7 and passed. He wouldn't have got in when he was 6 anyway because the class was full and priority is given to 7 yr olds.

Anyway, if you go to Komeetta to take the test there will be someone there from the PTA selling coffee and they can answer all your questions. I might go along if I am not working that day.

And just for the record.... in retrospect we should have dumped him in the Finnish school next door (our house backs onto the school yard) but we didn't. He would've done fine. Especially with two big bros speaking English at home.
P.

[Rosamunda]

But, for my info, do you know if kids can join these groups in a different school if there was such a group in a nearby school? Logistically, it probably wouldn't work 'cause it would mean me picking him up and driving him during the working day but it might be something we would consider in the future.

Yes, that is usually how it works. When I started I was given the enrolment forms from approx 70 kids and I spent a couple of weeks trying to fix groups that made sense, taking into consideration the age, location etc of the children. I was told I needed 6 minimum in a group. In the end the groups were mostly "geographic" because transport was the biggest constraint for most families. So the groups comprised children from 7-12 yrs (one or two even older) but that wasn't really a problem given that they were not all at the same level of fluency anyway. As I had kids of the same age myself (in an English language school) I poached all their stuff and used it in the classes. We also played lots of "games" (mostly for enriching vocab), role play etc..

[raamv]

Is this thread a sticky yet? at least for "Families in Finland" ??

[Hank W.]

And it might help if someone who would pass the aptitude test re-spell "School" with a less slippery Finnish keyboard