Finland-anti foreigners attitudes?????

[mCowboy]

"the amount of foreign-born arrested" which says nothing of convictions.

aha! OK I misread. But if this is the case (ie arrests, rather than convictions) then I would argue that these statistics are indeed quite telling.... IOW... if you are a foreigner you are more likely to be arrested on suspicion of committing a crime that if you are a Finn. And I have read similar trends in other countries. It would be interesting to know how many of those arrests did actually lead to convictions.... or even deportation (which in the case of the UK was - embarrassingly for the Home Office - almost zero).

don't you think that these statistics also prove that foreigners are more likely to commit crimes in Finland than Finns relative to their number?

[Rob A.]

Well...the debate seems to be exactly the same here...but interpreting the statistics can be quite a challenge... law enforcement can be quite variable depending on how busy the "enforcers" are... The "impression" here is that the criminal element in certain ethnic groups tends to be much more ruthless than the criminal elements within Canadian-born or long term residents...(well,, maybe Hell's Angels excepted...though even they are usually pretty careful not to "deep six" non-involved citizens...and once in Ontario, on behalf of the company I worked for, I had to negotiate a real estate transaction with a guy who was obviously a 'mafiosi'...no problem at all...he was actually politer some of the regular citizens I dealt with on other deals)...

But it probably should be no surprise that there is a somewhat greater tendency towards criminality among foreign born since a lot of them leave their native countries because they are misfits there... I would think the real debate is whether it is significant enough of a difference that "steps" need to be taken...

[Hank W.]

since a lot of them leave their native countries because they are misfits there...

And they y'all wonder why Finns ask why are you here (and count the silver)

[Hank W.]

BTW on this issue theres a very interesting post on a blog called "Itching for Eestimaa"

Tuomioja is famous in Estonia because his grandmother, Hella Wuolijoki, was born in Valgamaa in southern Estonia. Guzenina, who is not famous in Estonia, owes her name to her Russian family roots. And yet, nobody considers Guzenina to be Russian, nor does anyone consider Tuomioja to be Estonian.

Finnish, it appears, is a nationality, as opposed to an ethnicity. Finns are defined more by their relationship to the omnipresent, omni-taxing state than their shared ancestry, even if they all happen to look the same.

I think there is the point I've been trying to convey but could not have put into words.

[otyikondo]

[quote="Hank W."]BTW on this issue theres a very interesting post on a blog called "Itching for Eestimaa"



Muutuste raamat, you mean?

I'll get me Qian.

[Karhunkoski]

The "impression" here is that the criminal element in certain ethnic groups tends to be much more ruthless than the criminal elements within Canadian-born or long term residents...

Are you talking Triads?

I remember a gang of supposed Triads arriving on our patch in the UK and everyone crapped it

[Rosamunda]

"the amount of foreign-born arrested" which says nothing of convictions.

aha! OK I misread. But if this is the case (ie arrests, rather than convictions) then I would argue that these statistics are indeed quite telling.... IOW... if you are a foreigner you are more likely to be arrested on suspicion of committing a crime that if you are a Finn. And I have read similar trends in other countries. It would be interesting to know how many of those arrests did actually lead to convictions.... or even deportation (which in the case of the UK was - embarrassingly for the Home Office - almost zero).

don't you think that these statistics also prove that foreigners are more likely to commit crimes in Finland than Finns relative to their number?

Well no, not really.... not inconclusively... But they certainly do suggest that someone needs to take a closer look (eg the rape figures are so startling that someone, somewhere should be trying to explain them). I haven't read the whole article. When I have time I'll take a look. But I read similar articles in France and in most cases the overriding explanation for the skews was simply that victims are more likely to report a crime committed by a foreigner and the police are more likely to arrest foreigners. Plenty of crimes committed by "locals" were never reported and/or the police never made an arrest.

[Rob A.]

The "impression" here is that the criminal element in certain ethnic groups tends to be much more ruthless than the criminal elements within Canadian-born or long term residents...

Are you talking Triads?

I remember a gang of supposed Triads arriving on our patch in the UK and everyone crapped it

You got it!!... and apparently they have linkages with other Asian crime gangs... But invariably their violence tends to be of the "gangland slaying" type...settling scores... Average citizens are not the targets, but they can be in the "wrong place at the wrong time." The violence is so predictable, when the first news reports say a middle aged man was gunned down getting out of his vehicle in such and such upscale neighbourhood... I'll say, "Ah...a Chinese male, driving an SUV, "business" connections that take him to Hong Kong frequently, suspected "gangland execution" and "known to police.""...and invariably those will be the details that come out later...

The Triads tend to prey on their own ethnic group...but there are, of course, no guarantees....

[paddyishere]

Well,firstly in my opinion,,Ive worked for a total of 3 years (on and off) in Finland,and the statement you make about finn's being rude,and anti foreigner is completey opposite to my experience of the country.I find finnish people to be the most "REAL" nation ive visited, and ive been all over europe.meaning they tell you what its like,and what you see (or hear) is what you get.That may come across as being rude to you,but for me its what makes finns finnish.Every nation has its way of being,too many nations come across fake,and not sincere.In fact my best friend is finnish.and until recently my girlfriend was as well.Also the fact finns are humble>shy in some *not all!* cases,maybe also has an effect on the way they respond to a foreigner inquiring about a job.

Finally,,the big issue,,what it all boils down to i believe,is the language..Im 100% behind the idea that if you go to a foreign country,you should learn to the best of your ability,the lingo,just Finnish is so goddam hard,and its a win lose situation,because it does take time to learn it,but in the mean time you need to work,which is my dilemma,I eventually want to start up a small business in Helsinki,and ive recently moved there for the month to find out the situation,i can work through a friend at staff point,earning minimum wage,but cos of the language problem.thats all i can aim for at the moment.......so basically again I cant blame Finns of being anti foreigner,if it was the other way round and a Finnish Citizen who spoke no English,trying to find a job in the UK....would be just the same..Think of it like that....


KITTOS..!

Pat

[mCowboy]

KITTOS..!

Pat

It's KIITOS btw...

[paddyishere]

KITTOS..!

Pat

It's KIITOS btw...

Damn it,,never gona move to Finland now...

[shrecher]

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[Eledi]

hey Schrether...be careful on the words that u use when writing about others..you cannot say that....Stop listening to those"Finland anti-foreign attitudes" written by LOUSY PEOPLE..You do not know them and their lives here..see... if things have gone well for u here, thats you and all the best, but for others it hasn't so they are free to say what they feel and share what they've experienced,,you can NOT generalise things and call someone LOUSY,,,i studied here and recentrly got a decent job, and i can never call someone else,,LOUSY,,just because they r negative about the environment and the people around....all we need is to say our experiences here and give hope(if any),,,but don't call each other names,,,,
i thought i saw several posts above, in which you were trying to give your points (kindly) to the writer of this post,,all of a sudden you call the person LOUSY....
U R GOOD FOR NOTHING!!and i guess u are the lousy one here, who spends most of his time checking finlandforum and writing unnecessary replies to some posts....look Ngally is no where to be seen, the person has probaly continued with his/her life and forgotten all about this...and months after someone calls him/her lousy,,,
aakkhh i'm pissed off........

[shrecher]

hey Schrether...be careful on the words that u use when writing about others..you cannot say that....Stop listening to those"Finland anti-foreign attitudes" written by LOUSY PEOPLE..You do not know them and their lives here..see... if things have gone well for u here, thats you and all the best, but for others it hasn't so they are free to say what they feel and share what they've experienced,,you can NOT generalise things and call someone LOUSY,,,i studied here and recentrly got a decent job, and i can never call someone else,,LOUSY,,just because they r negative about the environment and the people around....all we need is to say our experiences here and give hope(if any),,,but don't call each other names,,,,
i thought i saw several posts above, in which you were trying to give your points (kindly) to the writer of this post,,all of a sudden you call the person LOUSY....
U R GOOD FOR NOTHING!!and i guess u are the lousy one here, who spends most of his time checking finlandforum and writing unnecessary replies to some posts....look Ngally is no where to be seen, the person has probaly continued with his/her life and forgotten all about this...and months after someone calls him/her lousy,,,
aakkhh i'm pissed off........

I'm sorry, I didn't want to hurt you.

[shrecher]

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