Teaching English as a Second Language (ESL) in Finland

[easily-lost]

Alas, but you do not become uniquely fitting for position by wanting to be.

Nobody ever said that. Everyone has their own speciality, the main point is whether you can discover it yourself or not before applying, which is an important ability as well.

If you fit their requirements, yes. But do NOT lie to make yourself more "unique".

I don't think wise people would lie in that regard, only the dumb will.

And as said, foreigner tends to have extra handicap when competing with natives of same level of education. So you might not be able to compete in field where your studies are valid. That is after you sort out having your studies recognised in Finland.

Of course this applies to any country, which is more like "common sense" in nowadays society, only 5-year-old would believe they can achieve whatever they want to. However, my point is, after practical analysis of the "market", then go find right places to apply for a job with the degrees that only a few people have, it will be much easier than competing in a field that is not yours.

[Tiwaz]

Nobody ever said that. Everyone has their own speciality, the main point is whether you can discover it yourself or not before applying, which is an important ability as well.

However, all specialties are not necessarily useful. One guy had huge experience and specialty in tweaking scripts on linux ware for certain Nokia phone type.

Pity he was downsized and nobody besides Nokia has use fot his special talent.

I don't think wise people would lie in that regard, only the dumb will.

Surprisingly many are stupid. There is of course also the point of "humility before superiority" which one has to remember at least in traditional finnish application process.

Of course this applies to any country, which is more like "common sense" in nowadays society, only 5-year-old would believe they can achieve whatever they want to. However, my point is, after practical analysis of the "market", then go find right places to apply for a job with the degrees that only a few people have, it will be much easier than competing in a field that is not yours.

But do you have degree which only few people have? Furthermore, does this degree have employment opportunities for more than few people?

Having Phd or any other collection of letters is useless if positions for those letters are filled. Or if they are filled by natives with same letters.

Sometimes you have to compete in field where jobs are to be had instead of field where there are none. And sitting on your ass waiting for those special letters you have coming up in job offer is not going to do much good to either your wallet or mental health.

Besides, switching careers is not necessarily bad idea. Specially in situation where you have big handicap in your preferred career as opposed to locals. And thanks to rather demanding work enviroment (gotta have correct training and studies for just about everything) it can be easier to have wide aim instead of stubbornly looking at what you used to be qualified for (back at home).

This is all basics of course.

[easily-lost]

The example of the guy at Nokia you just gave seems to have nothing to do with English teaching, and it's a pity that he didn't learn more skills at work while still in Nokia. Live and learn, a basic rule that is easily forgotten.

Surprisingly many are stupid. There is of course also the point of "humility before superiority" which one has to remember at least in traditional finnish application process.

Oh well, no one is smarter than the other in the world, it's just that we all THINK we're more clever than the rest, which is not true unfortunately.

But do you have degree which only few people have? Furthermore, does this degree have employment opportunities for more than few people?

Having Phd or any other collection of letters is useless if positions for those letters are filled. Or if they are filled by natives with same letters.

Sometimes you have to compete in field where jobs are to be had instead of field where there are none. And sitting on your ass waiting for those special letters you have coming up in job offer is not going to do much good to either your wallet or mental health.

Besides, switching careers is not necessarily bad idea. Specially in situation where you have big handicap in your preferred career as opposed to locals. And thanks to rather demanding work enviroment (gotta have correct training and studies for just about everything) it can be easier to have wide aim instead of stubbornly looking at what you used to be qualified for (back at home).

This is all basics of course.

I'd believe if there is a major being taught in universities, there must be a job market for it. If not, I'm afraid the school would have already cancelled it. And the most important thing we learn from school is not just basic skills, it's how to use what you studied to improve your own abilities in living in the society comfortablely! If you just graduate with some book knowledge in the head, nothing else, then you're not qualified for that piece of paper (aka. diploma)! As simple as that.

[Tiwaz]

The example of the guy at Nokia you just gave seems to have nothing to do with English teaching, and it's a pity that he didn't learn more skills at work while still in Nokia. Live and learn, a basic rule that is easily forgotten.

It has when you think of these "unique skills". What unique abilities OP has brought forth which would make it more likely to make it as english teacher?

But do you have degree which only few people have? Furthermore, does this degree have employment opportunities for more than few people?

Having Phd or any other collection of letters is useless if positions for those letters are filled. Or if they are filled by natives with same letters.

Sometimes you have to compete in field where jobs are to be had instead of field where there are none. And sitting on your ass waiting for those special letters you have coming up in job offer is not going to do much good to either your wallet or mental health.

Besides, switching careers is not necessarily bad idea. Specially in situation where you have big handicap in your preferred career as opposed to locals. And thanks to rather demanding work enviroment (gotta have correct training and studies for just about everything) it can be easier to have wide aim instead of stubbornly looking at what you used to be qualified for (back at home).

This is all basics of course.

I'd believe if there is a major being taught in universities, there must be a job market for it. If not, I'm afraid the school would have already cancelled it. And the most important thing we learn from school is not just basic skills, it's how to use what you studied to improve your own abilities in living in the society comfortablely! If you just graduate with some book knowledge in the head, nothing else, then you're not qualified for that piece of paper (aka. diploma)! As simple as that.[/quote]

I'd believe so as well, if there wasn't regular news about how this and that university or polytechnic is making too many of something for businesslife to consume.

Schools are not paid based on how many students end up employed after studies, as long as there are applicants and resources they will teach. In fact, more studens and graduates tends to mean more money for school.

And guess you have not noticed this finnish principle that you have to have paper to prove you know something. That is another problem in english teacher position. Requirements for such task may include variety of those papers from recognised institutions. It's not just being able to speak the language, you are expected to have something to prove you can do it, and teach it.

[Hank W.]

I'd believe if there is a major being taught in universities, there must be a job market for it. If not, I'm afraid the school would have already cancelled it.

Yes but no

[sammy]

A few points on teaching English in Finland: whether the qualifications issue is an "issue" depends on what you mean by the expression "teacher".

Have a look at the National Board of Education site first

http://www.oph.fi/info/recognition

-> Recognition of foreign qualifications in Finland

-> Eligibility to work as a teacher

Now, the main thing to note AFAIK is that those regulations ONLY concern the state-provided education ie non-private and non-commercial schools. So if you wish to apply for a job as an English teacher at a regular Finnish school, that is the "normal" school system, you would most likely need to have your degree recognised.

The eligibility to work as a teacher may only be granted to persons who are fully competent teachers in the country they have completed their qualification in. Another requirement is that the qualification is recognized as a Finnish higher university degree.

I'm not sure about the schools that offer IB programmes?

Anyway it's a different thing to qualify as an English teacher at the few "international" schools that exist, the (commercial) language institutes etc - they are not obliged to follow those recognition rules - how exactly they would decide on your eligibility, what certificates they'd accept... you'd be best advised to ask the prospective employer directly. I presume this would also hold true re: working as an English teacher at some Finnish company.

[rauginta_kojine]

Oh come on, it's not THAT difficult to find jobs in Finland, as long as you find the right places, and have a bit of luck. I don't understand why those PhDs would go find jobs as cleaning toilets and such, which is completely a waste of their degree!

Choose wisely and good luck!

OKay then, my post will not be on the topic, but then if you say so, then tell me:

1. Why couldn't my boyfriend (having Master Degree in Chemistry from Lithuania) find a job in his field for about 6 years now? He was looking for it in our country, then in Ireland, Canada, UK, Germany, Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland, Norway, Finland, Sweden. He has only 3months of experience in his field during al those 6 years after graduation. Why couldn't he find it? Yes, he is absolutely sure he can do his job, he is still very interetested in chemistry, he remembers almost everything, he has all the papers, but almost no experience. Why would someone hire him?
He is a foreigner, doesn't speak finnish yet, has only 3motnhs of experience after graduation. No possibilities.

Good. Now. You say - find right places. Ok, tell me those right places. We have tried every chemistry company or office related to that - no one replies or replies negatively. Where to find more right places?

Maybe he is not right living only about chemistry, but what to do when he doesn't really want to change his specialty and, if change, he would have to study again (he is 31 now) , he doesn't want, he has been studying for 7 years, and then TRY to find a job in another specialty, which he is not sure if he would be able to find a job, again, he is a foireigner and he can't speak finnish fluently. then what???

He is trying, but he is so tired after those 6 years of TRYING to find. You know what? I will tell you one story. Once he has found an advertisement in Finnish Mol.fi (then he was living in Ireland) for a chemist/laborantti. He called on phone to the company. He told them his knowldge, studies everything, promised to send proofs of the degree by fax. Guess what did they tell him? - You are OVERqualified to be working as a laborant. Oh yeah! They really said that. You know, actually it is so ridiculous! Even if you dream about working in a laboratory as a simple laborant (which only need Bachelor degree to do that), no one believes and no one cares,because you are OVERqualified. then again... what RIGHT PLACES??

it has been 6years. and all those years he had no choice BUT find those simple jobs that anyone could do...

[EP]

You are OVERqualified to be working as a laborant. Oh yeah! They really said that

I know, I have also heard that sentence, and so has my husband. Why is it so hard for people to understand that an unemployed person would be overjoyed just for a chance to have ANY job that is even close to their skills and knowledge. That would also give them necessary work experience. And not everybody even wants to be the top guy in some company.

I was over 30 when I got my first "real" job. There were two candidates at the finishing line, me (MA) and a guy with a PhD. They took me because they said that a PhD is over-qualified, and would leave the company the moment he got a better job. What happened? I changed jobs after 2 years, and the PhD guy got my old job. He stayed in it well over ten years.

[easily-lost]

Are you guys suggesting the higher your education is, the fewer opportunities there will be to get a decent job?!?

[kay30]

I'd believe if there is a major being taught in universities, there must be a job market for it. If not, I'm afraid the school would have already cancelled it.

Um. No. That is a lovely theory, but not based in reality. They have been saying for years that Universities churn out too many grads in certain fields and not enough in others. Everyone knows that. What was that article last year in HS? Something like 2000 media grads and 20 jobs for them.

This is about teachers in Finland...

But then being a teacher is something to be proud of in Finland. Teaching is usually in the top two in Finnish opinion polls of desirable professions and is among the hardest to break into. All class teachers must have a postgraduate degree in education and there are generally 10 applicants for every job.

http://education.guardian.co.uk/schools ... 79,00.html

[Tiwaz]

You are OVERqualified to be working as a laborant. Oh yeah! They really said that

I know, I have also heard that sentence, and so has my husband. Why is it so hard for people to understand that an unemployed person would be overjoyed just for a chance to have ANY job that is even close to their skills and knowledge. That would also give them necessary work experience. And not everybody even wants to be the top guy in some company.

I was over 30 when I got my first "real" job. There were two candidates at the finishing line, me (MA) and a guy with a PhD. They took me because they said that a PhD is over-qualified, and would leave the company the moment he got a better job. What happened? I changed jobs after 2 years, and the PhD guy got my old job. He stayed in it well over ten years.

But how often does that happen? Odds are against PhD guy being one who sticks to job way below his training and, above all else, pay level...

It's not the exceptions, but the rules which matter in risk assessment.

[shrecher]

I'm afraid that even if you were the most gifted leaf-raker in the world, you would not be able to simply come to Finland to rake leaves in Kaivopuisto without a Finnish certification to do so.

Finland has strict regulations regarding what you can and cannot do for many types of work, especially if you are a foreigner.

The above is not true at all. I have the real life example, proving opposite. One my friend-in-mind got here certification as foreign language teacher. He got a his bachelor degree in tiny college in Russia. OPH requested him to complete short professional training at local university and to have some hours of practice to evaluate the diploma here. He could manage it fairly easy by conducting a volunteer classes belonging to embassy. After 6 months the diploma was legalized here.

The diploma itself is not a problem at all. People can work without diploma, it should not be a legal issue. However, not all companies (schools) are willing to hire people without proper diploma. Private lessons are ok, if you have work permit.

You could check your details of your diploma evaluation here at oph.fi. You can send them a question, they replay promptly.

[EP]

Yes, but the job was not way below his training, neither was the pay. His PhD is from literature. Now he is a researcher at the university, and I don´t think that the pay is much better.

My husband heard the over-qualified sentence many times 10-15 years ago. He became unemployed in the turmoil of 1990´s recession. He had been a Big Boss, and the fall was hard. He then started to look for a new job, but there is always a very limited selection of Big Boss places, so he decided to forget those, and look for something practical instead, something similar to what he had done 20 years earlier. But for a long time nobody believed that he is ready and willing to do "lesser" jobs with less than half a salary. But he really was, and tried to convince the employers that he is not pretending. That convincing took over two years and a lot of frustration and disappointments and loss of self-confidence.

[Megstertex]

I'm afraid that even if you were the most gifted leaf-raker in the world, you would not be able to simply come to Finland to rake leaves in Kaivopuisto without a Finnish certification to do so.

Finland has strict regulations regarding what you can and cannot do for many types of work, especially if you are a foreigner.

The above is not true at all. I have the real life example, proving opposite. One my friend-in-mind got here certification as foreign language teacher. He got a his bachelor degree in tiny college in Russia. OPH requested him to complete short professional training at local university and to have some hours of practice to evaluate the diploma here. He could manage it fairly easy by conducting a volunteer classes belonging to embassy. After 6 months the diploma was legalized here.

The diploma itself is not a problem at all. People can work without diploma, it should not be a legal issue. However, not all companies (schools) are willing to hire people without proper diploma. Private lessons are ok, if you have work permit.

You could check your details of your diploma evaluation here at oph.fi. You can send them a question, they replay promptly.

Yes, they respond after several months and 200 euros, and depending on the profession, but for teaching in a school, they usually want you to attend some supplementary courses about the National Finnish Education system. You must know Finnish to go to a teacher training school in Helsinki. There is an English Master's program in Oulu to become qualified to Finnish standards after two years. Yes, you can still be a teacher, but under the poverty level salary, i.e., half of what your "certified" Finnish colleagues have. Believe it, Schrecher, this is the problem with retaining foreign teachers at foreign language schools is having their degrees (even within the EU) recognized in Finland. I wouldn't post something about this that isn't true, believe me, it is a serious problem for teachers with foreign degrees.

[Hank W.]

Whats with all this negativit....
/get my certs