WORK IN FINLAND

[antstar]

Double trouble

[Hank W.]

Oh, heres a bit to feed the topic
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Statis ... 5234728088

[Hank W.]

I seriously think that if i spoke fluent Finnish i could pass easily as a Finn.

No, you could pass as a Finn if you "acted Finnish". i.e. didn't speak and stared at people and dressed in a matching tracksuit with the missus The "problem" with "you westerners" is you think we share exactly the same "cultural values" as you do just because we look exactly the same. Thats why I said it would be much easier if we had a bit of that mongolian blood in us so you wouldn't be so eager to think that way

I mean, we might share 80% of the same "western values" and maybe 90% of the "Nordic values" but theres the stubborn 10% ugric that wants to chop that bishops head off on the lake ice. And *that* is the problem.... its not your looks or your language, its your... "vibes".... and thats what RaamV is trying to say (at least I think he is.) Like grossly exaggerating once you realize not saying hello to your neighbor is not "rude" because it is not a "western value" we share, but it is a sign of politeness as a "Finnish value". I mean if we looked like Tibetans you wouldn't for a moment wonder why all the kids were showing their tongue at you. Just because you're white don't mean we're limeys

[Tiwaz]

Without the Finnish cultural understanding, there is also a ceiling at work.. You are a normal worker in a Finnish company..When you start to even try to speak Finnish, the respect level rises to an enormous level!! and you are then treated as one of em!! ( In Sweden, its more like an insult to Sweden and its culture if an immigrant doenst talk Swedish within a few years. Its really bad in Japan too).
Its the same thing in Germany ( try living in a small village..the immigrant suddenly gets turned into the village idiot), Spain, France..etc..
so Why should Finland be any different? Those English speaking skills are good for them rich tourists

i'm having abit of trouble understanding this argument, when you state "cultural understanding" are you refering to people outside of Europe? or are you just meaning the language barrier itself?
I have not heard people refusing point-blank to learn the language just as we all know it terribly difficult to work and learn the Finish language. The same can not be said for your other examples whixch are considerably easier to learn. I seriously think that if i spoke fluent Finnish i could pass easily as a Finn.

And we understand that.

What I at least ask is understanding that this is Finland.
If you are repeatedly turned down because you do not speak the local language, what it means? It means potential employers want you to speak finnish.
I call this fair play, in country you speak local language. Many immigrants complain... Unfair they say.

In what way? Which one here did NOT know that official languages of Finland are finnish and swedish?

Is it unfair that employers may consider it necessary that you speak one or both of those languages to perform your duties?

Yet that is what is often complained. Hard to get job without speaking language despite experience and stuff...

It's just the way things are, great many professions or employers want you to speak local language. But giltarsed folk do not understand. Why on earth should worker in Finland speak finnish! It's not right and proper! Whine, whine whine... Bitch bitch bitch...


If employer does not care about your linquistic capabilities, he hires you. If he thinks you should speak languages in job, he will not hire you if you do not. Many finns are expected to speak in foreign tongues to get jobs. Why should not immigrants be expected to speak in local language?

[sinikala]

As you Hank have at least worked outside of Finland (you were at sea IIRC?) you at least have experience of being on the other side of the fence and can put forward something resembling an informed opinion about not being a native.

Yeah, living in the trailer park sharing a compound with Mexicans and hearing "you can't put white people live there" from the most glorious non-racist non-xenophobic whiteneck multiculturalist nation with peanutbutter and justice for all And the ship was 900 people of 200+ nationalities and 72 languages... nice pecking orders these multiculturalists have we gave up in the 60's So yeah, no me joda... cadas los dias a todos los gentes mierda igual.

No comprende muchacho, jo no soy maricon... soy Capitan!

So have you been a "foreigner in the UK"?

Not really, then again, I don't try to pass myself off as an expert on how to be a foreigner in England...

Nobody is a prophet in their hometown.

You should meet this mate of mine ... goes by the name of Tizwaz ...

[antstar]

I seriously think that if i spoke fluent Finnish i could pass easily as a Finn.

No, you could pass as a Finn if you "acted Finnish". i.e. didn't speak and stared at people and dressed in a matching tracksuit with the missus The "problem" with "you westerners" is you think we share exactly the same "cultural values" as you do just because we look exactly the same. Thats why I said it would be much easier if we had a bit of that mongolian blood in us so you wouldn't be so eager to think that way

I mean, we might share 80% of the same "western values" and maybe 90% of the "Nordic values" but theres the stubborn 10% ugric that wants to chop that bishops head off on the lake ice. And *that* is the problem.... its not your looks or your language, its your... "vibes".... and thats what RaamV is trying to say (at least I think he is.) Like grossly exaggerating once you realize not saying hello to your neighbor is not "rude" because it is not a "western value" we share, but it is a sign of politeness as a "Finnish value". I mean if we looked like Tibetans you wouldn't for a moment wonder why all the kids were showing their tongue at you. Just because you're white don't mean we're limeys

I do understand these differences but i had put them down as "quirkes" you wouldn't beleive how many times i wanted to bang my head against the wall when i first came here 8 years ago because when i asked for "yski olut" at the bar i couldn't finish it with a "please" i uynderstand finn guys are shy and don't like small talk until they get to know you, i am in fact out for a sauna day this weekend with loads of them! But these "quirkes" are not very high barriers to overcome!

And we understand that.

What I at least ask is understanding that this is Finland.
If you are repeatedly turned down because you do not speak the local language, what it means? It means potential employers want you to speak finnish.
I call this fair play, in country you speak local language. Many immigrants complain... Unfair they say.

In what way? Which one here did NOT know that official languages of Finland are finnish and swedish?

Is it unfair that employers may consider it necessary that you speak one or both of those languages to perform your duties?

Yet that is what is often complained. Hard to get job without speaking language despite experience and stuff...

It's just the way things are, great many professions or employers want you to speak local language. But giltarsed folk do not understand. Why on earth should worker in Finland speak finnish! It's not right and proper! Whine, whine whine... Bitch bitch bitch...


If employer does not care about your linquistic capabilities, he hires you. If he thinks you should speak languages in job, he will not hire you if you do not. Many finns are expected to speak in foreign tongues to get jobs. Why should not immigrants be expected to speak in local language?

i have been turned down for jobs because of my language difficulties and fully accept that reason, btw it would not of helped if i spoke swedish! i was at a party weekend with friends from my finnish course, one guy is swedish, he has a Finnish g\f, guess which language they communicate in??? oh yes English Whats all that about if this countries official language is Finnish and Swedish?

[Tiwaz]

And we understand that.

What I at least ask is understanding that this is Finland.
If you are repeatedly turned down because you do not speak the local language, what it means? It means potential employers want you to speak finnish.
I call this fair play, in country you speak local language. Many immigrants complain... Unfair they say.

In what way? Which one here did NOT know that official languages of Finland are finnish and swedish?

Is it unfair that employers may consider it necessary that you speak one or both of those languages to perform your duties?

Yet that is what is often complained. Hard to get job without speaking language despite experience and stuff...

It's just the way things are, great many professions or employers want you to speak local language. But giltarsed folk do not understand. Why on earth should worker in Finland speak finnish! It's not right and proper! Whine, whine whine... Bitch bitch bitch...


If employer does not care about your linquistic capabilities, he hires you. If he thinks you should speak languages in job, he will not hire you if you do not. Many finns are expected to speak in foreign tongues to get jobs. Why should not immigrants be expected to speak in local language?

i have been turned down for jobs because of my language difficulties and fully accept that reason, btw it would not of helped if i spoke swedish! i was at a party weekend with friends from my finnish course, one guy is swedish, he has a Finnish g\f, guess which language they communicate in??? oh yes English Whats all that about if this countries official language is Finnish and Swedish?

Official status of swedish is practically joke today anyway with exception of some coastal areas and Åland.
But that's still requirement in for most official posts. Speak finnish and swedish.

But in coast there are some chances you could have survived with swedish.

[antstar]

The reason i addressed this question to Raamv is that he has come from a different continent, maybe not directly, but he would be able to enlighten me more then a native maybe able to. As your attemps i have passed off as "quirks" which can be overcome. If you come to a different country you feel comfortable around foreigners so these "quirks" can be quite refreshing. For every 10 stares you get, 1 easter witch more than makes up for!

[Hank W.]

So have you been a "foreigner in the UK"?

Not really, then again, I don't try to pass myself off as an expert on how to be a foreigner in England...

Well, we're trying to pass ourselves as how to be Finns in Finland so you wouldn't be such a foreigner

[Hank W.]

But these "quirkes" are not very high barriers to overcome!

No, but the real barrier to overcome is to get to the point that "saying please is a quirk". Once you get there you have achieved abessiivi.

[Hank W.]

one guy is swedish, he has a Finnish g\f, guess which language they communicate in??? oh yes English Whats all that about if this countries official language is Finnish and Swedish?

Yes well if you got a Geordie and an Welsh girl they need to speak Queens English to understand each other. The Swedish-Swedish and Finnish-Swedish are dialectically quite separate and even Welsh is an official language in England... do the Geordies speak it then?

[antstar]

one guy is swedish, he has a Finnish g\f, guess which language they communicate in??? oh yes English Whats all that about if this countries official language is Finnish and Swedish?

Yes well if you got a Geordie and an Welsh girl they need to speak Queens English to understand each other. The Swedish-Swedish and Finnish-Swedish are dialectically quite separate and even Welsh is an official language in England... do the Geordies speak it then?

but the welsh and geord would communicate in English! Fin/Swede = English also!

[Karhunkoski]

No, but the real barrier to overcome is to get to the point that "saying please is a quirk".

I sometimes wonder if its wise to take advice on overcoming manners from a Finnish male.

After all, this is one of the main characteristics that resulted in many foreign men being dragged to Finland

[shrecher]

If you are repeatedly turned down because you do not speak the local language, what it means? It means potential employers want you to speak finnish.
I call this fair play, in country you speak local language. Many immigrants complain... Unfair they say.

Fair or unfair are not applicable words in the business. The business doesn't know emotional words and terms. It knows "commitment", "cooperation", "refusing".
In business language it will be said: "OK, We'll have the business with you, and hire you, even you don't speak Finnish" OR "We can't have the business with you, as you don't speak Finnish". Excellent, if a company doesn't want to hire me, no problems, we will not have the business together. This is not the last company in world, perhaps, there are many other companies who need my service and we will successfully cooperate.

[antstar]

No, but the real barrier to overcome is to get to the point that "saying please is a quirk".

I sometimes wonder if its wise to take advice on overcoming manners from a Finnish male.

After all, this is one of the main characteristics that resulted in many foreign men being dragged to Finland

Very true, most foreigners i know are here as punishment for finding a Finish partner, not because it is the promised land!