Restaurant business

r32 · Post by **r32** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:06 pm

Hello guys!

I would like to know which are the steps to be followed in order to open a restaurant in Finland, most likely Helsinki area.
What you need to take into cosideration? What are the main obstacles? Can you sell also alcohol in the restaurant?...
Can somebody give me some advice regarding this issue.

Thanks in advance for your help.

**Sponsor:**

jessesuomi · Post by **jessesuomi** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:42 pm

Dont do it. Its kind of a bad market and even if you wanted to do "authentic" from wherever you come, you will have to change it to fit finnish tastes. That and the failure rate of places is very high.

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:13 am

consideration: location location location..
watch out for: 18-20 hour days for a few years and it reduces to 16-18 hours and after this you ll make enough money to cover your rent barely ( or pay a mortgage) and wont make like megabucks!!
Business could be seasonal and so you need to make money in summer as much and be able to save on winter..
competition is really cutthroat.so you need to know the people in the trade to buy stuff at lower costs, hire staff, etc
Licensing for both the restaurant and an alcohol licensed person working all the time when serving alcohol
Food safety inspections is a must and so are food storing/cooking laws..
VAT registration needed

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:19 am

Finland is not a "restaurant culture". So if you don't hit the mark with your business idea first time, you probably won't succeed.

r32 · Post by **r32** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:35 am

rinso wrote:Finland is not a "restaurant culture". So if you don't hit the mark with your business idea first time, you probably won't succeed.

I know that but everytime when I went to Helsinki the restaurant were quite full with people...so I think that if you come with a nice idea it might work...

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:56 am

Yes, but do you also know how many restaurants close and open over and over again in Helsinki!!
A Lot of restaurants are owned by a group so they have advantage of scale..
However, individual restaurants are harder to run and maintain!!
There is more than just an idea to start a restaurant..

catfish78 · Post by **catfish78** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:17 pm

How do you make a million Euros in the restaurant business?

Start with 10 million Euros.

adamo · Post by **adamo** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:43 pm

Hey all,

Such pessimistic atmosphere in here. Only negative attitude and not even based on experience.
Business failaire are possible all over the globe in case of bad planing and management.

Effectively, doing business in Finland is quiet hard because of some inflexible rules and higher costs. But let s not forget that the competition in restaurant Business is mediocre. In addition the finns are not meticulous which means they are esay to satisfy

So go on with your project and come up with innovative idea, nice food and atmosphere.
Location, Budget are to take in consideration.

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:42 pm

All said and done, I have lots of contacts in the restaurant Industry through ma SO. We have tried this and decided to not go forward with this. So whats your excuse?
Who do you think is going to give a loan for this guy who has no clue or connections (as far as he has mentioned) to the Restaurant industry and just come up with this idea. Have you done a search on this topic? this has come several times with idiots like you advising people to start a risky business without a clue on how they are going to make money on it.
Bad planning and management comes later for a business failure.
Before that you need to have a Business Case for it. if you dont have one ( based on your idea, capability, market, competition, team of people, money etc etc)
If you think that Doing business in Finland is hard, think 5 times as that for opening a restaurant ( or for that matter even a small cafe).
Depending on the kind of restaurant you open , the meticulous nature of the Finns show up e.g. You cannot start a Fine dining restaurant with a Hesburger like staff ( or for that matter hire people who dont know how to set the forks properly or pour wine or serve food..there are specialists for these...if you want to find out,. take a trip to the oopera house ).
The advice you give is like banging on an wooden stick hoping that someone someplace will hear you in a forest 100km long...
Its better to give a realistic picture than false hopes..and unless the OP has the money to lose ( like catfish said), its not worth starting one if you dont have a clue about it

r32 · Post by **r32** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:31 pm

I am not coming empty hands for starting the business. I will start with 30.000 or 40.000 euros, that should give me a bit of an advantage, hopefully.
I was thinking about restaurants because finns started also to enjoy going out like other european nations. I had in mind for a long time to start a restaurant and now I would like to get some info first and then consider my options...
Starting a business is hard everywhere, you can't be sure about anything nowadays, but If you are not willing to risk then stay out of it.

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:45 pm

Well, Be prepared to shell out for that Kitchen of yours if you are planning on a hot-cold combo of food!! ...

But your major cost will be finding the right Chef, cook and Servers.. especially when they are in demand all over the HEV area..

richard berman · Post by **richard berman** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:52 pm

raamv wrote:Well, Be prepared to shell out for that Kitchen of yours if you are planning on a hot-cold combo of food!! ...
But your major cost will be finding the right Chef, cook and Servers.. especially when they are in demand all over the HEV area..

You are 100% right about the staff, that will be a big problem, unless you get a few non speaking Fins in the kitchen, and most chefs get to choose where they wish to work (unless they and crap). When you think that big firms such us SOK/Hok group are holding open days to try and get people to work for them.

jessesuomi · Post by **jessesuomi** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:34 pm

adamo wrote:Hey all,

Such pessimistic atmosphere in here. Only negative attitude and not even based on experience.
Business failaire are possible all over the globe in case of bad planing and management.

Effectively, doing business in Finland is quiet hard because of some inflexible rules and higher costs. But let s not forget that the competition in restaurant Business is mediocre. In addition the finns are not meticulous which means they are esay to satisfy

So go on with your project and come up with innovative idea, nice food and atmosphere.
Location, Budget are to take in consideration.

Heheee, well, first off food is my business. I can tell you from experience, not only here in Finland but in 6 different countries, that the restaurant business is not like any other out there. The unseen aspects are huge. If you have no connections in the immediate city/town in which you are looking to open a place you are already so far behind the success curve. Then if you have not owned or operated one that statistic goes waaaaay up.
€30-40k haha, well, I just helped open a place for some wildly successful business people, guided them through everything and stayed on for a short while until they kept trying to use business theories from different business types and well, business is not so good for them and most of the workers have left. These are Finns that are very well connected and dare I say loaded with money. €30-40k will get you the basic stuff needed if you buy used stuff. Unless of course you are looking into buying a used restaurant that has everything already, at which point.....why did it close to begin with?
So many places here are owned by a bigger company. Its the only way they can survive, or be very small and operate a very unique place.
Opening a restaurant here is very very complicated as you have to deal with so many different other companies for your survival. For example, where does the meat come from? Fish? Vegetables? Dry goods? Who takes the trash? Old oil and grease? What about dishwasher fluids and upkeep? Where you buy or rent your dishes/plates? All of these things you need ALL of the time. Let alone wines, beers, and sodas etc. If you do like so many places you just go to Kespro or Heino tukku and well, you dont have anything different from them either.....
Food wise finns are very easy to satisfy, that is one of the problems with the food culture here. If you have a great idea that seems even a little different from everyone else you might not get the business you think you would. They typically dont care.... I think it is a sad thing but.... really you dont see so many great finnish restaurants making finnish food because so many are happy with getting that stuff either from the prepared food aisle at Kmarket or eating it out at ABC or some other place. You truly are going to have to bring something very very unique and accessible for the people or have the one location that everyone sees with exceptional hours.
One example of this is Manala....they serve food until nearly 4am... VERY VERY uncommon for a finnish restaurant. And I mean sit down, wait staff, proper restaurant. But because of this they are often busy then. They are one of the few that do this...
But hey, if you want some help to maybe loose your money try it. But why wouldnt you do it in your home country where at least you have at aleast a bit more advantage?

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:32 am

adamo wrote:Hey all,
Such pessimistic atmosphere in here. Only negative attitude and not even based on experience.

I can only agree with Jesse.
I worked some time in a restaurant that made the top 50 list, but even they were struggling. And they had to cut corners frequently to survive.
Why do you think that you would succeed without contacts and prior experience?

r32 · Post by **r32** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:00 pm

jessesuomi wrote:
adamo wrote:Hey all,

Such pessimistic atmosphere in here. Only negative attitude and not even based on experience.
Business failaire are possible all over the globe in case of bad planing and management.

Effectively, doing business in Finland is quiet hard because of some inflexible rules and higher costs. But let s not forget that the competition in restaurant Business is mediocre. In addition the finns are not meticulous which means they are esay to satisfy

So go on with your project and come up with innovative idea, nice food and atmosphere.
Location, Budget are to take in consideration.
Heheee, well, first off food is my business. I can tell you from experience, not only here in Finland but in 6 different countries, that the restaurant business is not like any other out there. The unseen aspects are huge. If you have no connections in the immediate city/town in which you are looking to open a place you are already so far behind the success curve. Then if you have not owned or operated one that statistic goes waaaaay up.
€30-40k haha, well, I just helped open a place for some wildly successful business people, guided them through everything and stayed on for a short while until they kept trying to use business theories from different business types and well, business is not so good for them and most of the workers have left. These are Finns that are very well connected and dare I say loaded with money. €30-40k will get you the basic stuff needed if you buy used stuff. Unless of course you are looking into buying a used restaurant that has everything already, at which point.....why did it close to begin with?
So many places here are owned by a bigger company. Its the only way they can survive, or be very small and operate a very unique place.
Opening a restaurant here is very very complicated as you have to deal with so many different other companies for your survival. For example, where does the meat come from? Fish? Vegetables? Dry goods? Who takes the trash? Old oil and grease? What about dishwasher fluids and upkeep? Where you buy or rent your dishes/plates? All of these things you need ALL of the time. Let alone wines, beers, and sodas etc. If you do like so many places you just go to Kespro or Heino tukku and well, you dont have anything different from them either.....
Food wise finns are very easy to satisfy, that is one of the problems with the food culture here. If you have a great idea that seems even a little different from everyone else you might not get the business you think you would. They typically dont care.... I think it is a sad thing but.... really you dont see so many great finnish restaurants making finnish food because so many are happy with getting that stuff either from the prepared food aisle at Kmarket or eating it out at ABC or some other place. You truly are going to have to bring something very very unique and accessible for the people or have the one location that everyone sees with exceptional hours.
One example of this is Manala....they serve food until nearly 4am... VERY VERY uncommon for a finnish restaurant. And I mean sit down, wait staff, proper restaurant. But because of this they are often busy then. They are one of the few that do this...
But hey, if you want some help to maybe loose your money try it. But why wouldnt you do it in your home country where at least you have at aleast a bit more advantage?

Thanks for the guidance. I will start by saying that I am not planing to open a big restaurant. I was thinking about a small place, 10-12 tables max and a unique place, small but cozy in terms of food. Opening a big restaurant it's very hard, you need a lot of staff and much more expenses.
I am planing to get the cook from my country, so I don't need to search for a cook here and I do have couple of people which I can hire as my staff.
I have a friend who has good capabilities to decorate the resturant so I don't need to pay any designer, so I save some money also from there.
If I would open a restaurant in my country the competition is much much much harder then it is here, and to be honest with you I have more hope to succeed here then in my own country. I've meet people which started a restaurant withouth no preview experience in restaurant domain, and now they have good results.

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