Restaurant business

[adamo]

Hey,

firstable I am quiet shock RAAMV about the way you debate. You are not debating civily!
There is no need to be unpolite in case you disagree with someone.
I diden´t neglect that business is hard here. My point is EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE.
Maybe you don t beleive in this because you are fully satisfied with 400 Euros Kela money.

[raamv]

Hey,
firstable I am quiet shock RAAMV about the way you debate. You are not debating civily!
There is no need to be unpolite in case you disagree with someone.
I diden´t neglect that business is hard here. My point is EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE.
Maybe you don t beleive in this because you are fully satisfied with 400 Euros Kela money.

the problem is that you expect everyone to agree with everything you say too!! so you are shocked..
If you let it get to your brains what I say, and think about it, you will then at least see some semblance..
Since you are unable to do either, you are shocked..
You accused all the people who gave advice of having no experience which is false..
you accused all the people of being negative which is false
If you didnt neglect that business is hard here, which part of the "hard" did you identify and highlight that here instead of false accusations.
Which part did you identify that is easy here? This shows your lack of business acumen.
Everything is possible if you are aware of what is not possible and what is.
This kind of blatant statement is what leads people to fail in their entrepreneurship.
If you know the story of Edison, you wouldn't be sitting here accusing people of not having experience and giving negative advice.
Edison knew a 1000 ways how NOT to build a light bulb so that he can focus on the ways that you can..
I am fully satisfied contributing more that that to KELA!! So shut the ?? up and give realistic advice instead of accusing people, without giving any advice at all.

[rinso]

So shut the ?? up and give realistic advice instead of accusing people, without giving any advice at all.

[r32]

Please guys let's not start any personal disputes from this topic. Thanks

[Tiwaz]

Thanks for the guidance. I will start by saying that I am not planing to open a big restaurant. I was thinking about a small place, 10-12 tables max and a unique place, small but cozy in terms of food. Opening a big restaurant it's very hard, you need a lot of staff and much more expenses.
I am planing to get the cook from my country, so I don't need to search for a cook here and I do have couple of people which I can hire as my staff.
I have a friend who has good capabilities to decorate the resturant so I don't need to pay any designer, so I save some money also from there.
If I would open a restaurant in my country the competition is much much much harder then it is here, and to be honest with you I have more hope to succeed here then in my own country. I've meet people which started a restaurant withouth no preview experience in restaurant domain, and now they have good results.

Off the top of my head...

How well versed are you and your chef on legislation in Finland regarding restaurant running? Having inspector visit and shut down the business is not good for long term.
Another problem is alcohol. You need to have permit to sell alcohol in estabilishment, but to get permit you need person who has lisence to sell alcohol.
IIRC it goes like this, person selling the alcohol has to have lisence to do so. Thus, if only one employer has this lisence... There will be no selling alcohol when this employer is busy/away.

Then there is food... Your cook has to know how to fit the food into local taste.
Many foreigners complain about this "bland" thing. Finns on the other hand complain that foreign foods are inedible. I love my food spicy, but still I had to start picking off parts of food when visiting local Thai place. And that food only had one "pepper" as warning. It simply was too hot for me.

If your food does not fit finnish preference, you won't make big bucks. And don't presume to come as shining knight of food, changing finnish preference with your great force of culinarism. You can try, but either you end up adapting to clients or your business shuts down.

In the end one of the biggest problems is that while you may see something in need of fixing in Finland and finnish way of eating... Natives most likely do not agree to same level. And they are ones who pay you.

[Tiwaz]

Doublepost

[rinso]

I was thinking about a small place, 10-12 tables max ..... and I do have couple of people which I can hire as my staff.

I would say you need (can afford?) 1 staff member per 15 to 20 customers. How many customers on average (including weekdays) do you expect with 10 tables?

I am planing to get the cook from my country,

How well versed are you and your chef on legislation in Finland regarding restaurant running? Having inspector visit and shut down the business is not good for long term.

Hygiene pass is critical, for the cook, but also for the other staff.

IIRC it goes like this, person selling the alcohol has to have lisence to do so. Thus, if only one employer has this lisence... There will be no selling alcohol when this employer is busy/away.

True

Then there is food... Your cook has to know how to fit the food into local taste.

You can try, but either you end up adapting to clients or your business shuts down.

Adapting to "bland" is a challenge for a cook who loves his profession. It often frustrates me that I have to ignore wonderful taste combinations because the are "to exotic" for the clients.

I've meet people which started a restaurant withouth no preview experience in restaurant domain, and now they have good results.

I have met many people with experiences. some of them succeeded, some of them failed.

[Tiwaz]

Adapting to "bland" is a challenge for a cook who loves his profession. It often frustrates me that I have to ignore wonderful taste combinations because the are "to exotic" for the clients.

Try stopping to think of it as bland and more as approach "less is more". Food is not rotten so no need to cover it up with spices

Some cooks get this strange idea that putting lots of stuff in is better than clear and simple approach. I think Gordon Ramsay once was cursing one chef that he was overloading his food with different combinations.

[jessesuomi]

Keep in mind also there is no chef operating in Finland at Ramsays level.
Also, keep in mind that chefs from Finland do travel alot and do get exposed to much of whats out there in the world. I have worked along side cooks who have spent time at the Fat Duck, Georges Blanc, Alain Ducasse, Alain Passard and a whole big list of others that basically have laid the foundation for what the model of excellence in food has been for the last 30 years.
Here is another issue.... bringing a cook from your home area will be very difficult unless he is a business partner, and of course before any of that happens he would need to prove that the need can not be filled by any other person here. Care to mention what country or what style of food you are coming from?
As far as basic food with out the need for lots of spices or stuff to cover up the "rotten" food as you called it bring two things to my mind:
A; you truly are not aware of the finnish palate and their way of thinking when it comes to food. Many still eat because the have not, not so much as they enjoy the food culture like say Italians do or French do. Crawfish parties and such are an exception but then it is more of the company than the food. There isnt much simpler in food than boiled potatoes with dill, and boiled crawfish with dill, bay leave, and a small pinch of very basic spices... then there is graavi, hmm, or well, much of the finnish food is made very simply.
B; if you feel that the basis for using lots of spices and such is to cover rotten food then you dont know so much about food in my opinion. Zatar? Masalas? Curries? Tandors? Tagine? bouillabaise even? These all require a great deal of items and flavoring to bring out the desired affect. Of course regional differences and such do play a role, southern Indian curries are a bit different than Indonesian. Hell, Chinese food has 7 different flavor profiles that is used to judge the quality of its food. 7!! And that is one of the most grand cuisines out there in the world! Now there isnt really anything close to a real chinese restaurant in Finland. Yet there are some and they do business because they had to adapt how they did their work to fit the local tastes.
You will have just as much luck trying to get all finns to speak swedish as you will trying to educate them on the glories of your food. I just went through this with a place here where the owners had an idea of how they wanted to have the place and the "concept". They were finns, and well, their idea was to make something medi/southern european. I gave them example of what you would get in the med, and what you would get in a finnish restaurant that was trying to do this food. They wanted what they wanted and screw the customers. The will be closed shortly. I know that it wasnt my food that convinced them, it was their way of thinking "finnish people will adapt and see our glory". Trust me, I would have loved to develop the food as to something that resembled the area from which it really came. But in the end, it just doesnt pay the bills.
If you have 10 tables..... are you talking 2 tops? 4 Tops? or what. The amount of tables doesnt mean !"#¤%. I know of a place that has only 1 table, but at that one they seat 50 people.... But lets just say half of yours are 2 tops and the other 5 are 4. So now you have 30 persons maybe sitting down to eat at one time. Im sorry, but one waiter/waitress is not going to be able to do that very well. At least not to a level that stands out and makes people think "we need to get back down there".
But hey, its your money. IF the govt even lets you go forward with this plan, Im not trying to sound negative or crush your dreams, but I would be VERY VERY suprised if it succeeds. Going to a foreign country and opening up a restaurant, a business which is very famous for its failure rates, and not having restaurant experience is a road to disaster.
Just my opinion.

[Tiwaz]

My points were not to be taken seriously, but spices have been used in the past to cover up minor details like less than fresh supplies from days when cold was only available during winter.

As for foods, I am from Finland so I'm pretty familiar with finnish foods.
And many foods are best when you keep them simple.

For example elk/moose... That stuff is so good... Little herbs, butter and salt.
Or "särä". In it's simplest form, it is potatoes, lamb and salt in birchwood bowl having kept in hot oven for hours.

Tastes really good.

[jas_rho]

I think it would be an excellent idea to start a restaurant! Just any kind. I think as long as there is food people will come and thats that. Especially if you don't know anything about running a business or restaurant it doesn't matter. Just have food and I am sure people will come order. hehe that kind of reminds me. A couple of years ago a guy in Tampere opened up a Chinese noodle place and all he did was heat it up in the microwave right in front of you after ordering... I am sure you can guess if he is still around

[sammy]

you truly are not aware of the finnish palate and their way of thinking when it comes to food. (...) There isnt much simpler in food than boiled potatoes with dill, and boiled crawfish with dill, bay leave, and a small pinch of very basic spices... then there is graavi, hmm, or well, much of the finnish food is made very simply.

Just a small sidenote - your message containeth words of wisdom, but then again -referring to the quote above- enjoying these "simple" tastes can consist of equally genuine appreciation of food than "the Italian/French food culture"... and whilst those certainly are different from that of Finland, let us not pretend that people in those countries never ever eat junk food or simply "just to get their fill" This just as a small reality check; the social aspects of eating have little if anything to do with the actual taste or "quality" of the food. I bet even the Borgias had some really swinging parties going on, despite their anthrax-flavoured wine.

And also, the majority of what makes up the Italian / French cuisine would most probably taste "bland" in the opinion of someone who comes from a more spice-oriented food culture, as opposed to "herb-oriented" - if I'd get this business idea of opening "Trattoria Sammy" in Bangalore, should I frown at the local customers who'd undoubtedly bring their own chili and shovel it liberally over my Tagliatelle carciofi e prosciutto?

Carry on, I know b*gger all about the restaurant business as such!

[rinso]

Try stopping to think of it as bland and more as approach "less is more". Food is not rotten so no need to cover it up with spices
.........As for foods, I am from Finland so I'm pretty familiar with finnish foods.
And many foods are best when you keep them simple.

Isn't that just the Finnish attitude we describe?
They are used to simple foods, no adventures combinations.
(and combining flavours has nothing to do with covering up rotten food)

And indeed Finnish food can be good and delicious. I use many dishes created by for instance Eero Mäkelä or Pekka Immonen, purely based on Finnish products. But here in the countryside it often scares people and they choose the more traditional (simple) dishes.

[sammy]

(and combining flavours has nothing to do with covering up rotten food)

Of course not - but in olden times (and to an extent, today) strong/hot spices were used to help preserve foodstuffs because of their antiseptic properties, and it is quite likely that, every now and then, people may have been eating "not so fresh" food because the spiciness covered up the 'off' flavours. But surely the latter was not the intention or the reason why spices were added.

[shrecher]

I think in Finland there are a lots of restaurants and they present all possible cuisines. I also saw that oriental food (e.g. Indian) is served by the local people like Indians. The same for Cheese, Thai. Definitely, there is great demand for such food. Try to visit Rauhalahti, Kamppi, Itäkeskus, etc during lunch hours or after 5 pm. All of them are full, sometimes people queue. I also noticed as better cooking as more people. So, there is nothing impossible, even more it is quite possible. I think you should take into accont the following:

- money. sooner investment. It is always the risk. As less you experiences as more risk. You may try to manage the risk by seeking the state support. The goverment might own you some money if you can show the good business plan. Work on it. It is your first challenge. You should hire some professional consulting (i.e. KPMG, they very good). Don't save money on it. It will pay you back or save you from the disaster

- location, location, location, location,location.
Repeat this word everytime when you seek for the location. As better location as more chance you have. Note, the crowd place is better. Normally, such places are expensive, but don't try to save.

- professionals. build your business of professionals, doesn't matter how much it costs.

just my €0.02