finland needs workers

[shrecher]

And of course IT and those 2-3 companies you know of is the whole Finland!

well, at least one company, which I know, is roughly 3% of the country GDP and it employs 10K people, a lots of them don't speak Finnish (like me). There are a tons of opened positions from that company in Finland (from summer trainee to senior level).

[Hank W.]

So why don't they hire Zion?

[mrjimsfc]

So why don't they hire Zion?

Maybe he's too old! You said earlier that they don't hire old people.

[Tiwaz]

And of course IT and those 2-3 companies you know of is the whole Finland!

well, at least one company, which I know, is roughly 3% of the country GDP and it employs 10K people, a lots of them don't speak Finnish (like me). There are a tons of opened positions from that company in Finland (from summer trainee to senior level).

How large percentage does not speak finnish?
And do they only hire foreigners? If not, every immigrant has to compete with dozens of qualified finns who have homefield benefit.

And finally... IT IS JUST ONE COMPANY! It will not give jobs to 100 000 foreigners most of whom are not IT people FFS. Get that head out before you suffocate.

[shrecher]

So why don't they hire Zion?

Well, to be hired person should match at least the following 3

- Education
- Experience
- Skills

Assuming he has good Education, matching to company needs, he should show experience with reliable references, Zion's skills are needed for the company. The publication doesn't speak about last two, so it is very difficult to conclude anything, but, essential to assume Experience/Skills were not found interesting for the company.

[shrecher]

How large percentage does not speak finnish?

I can't answer.

And do they only hire foreigners? If not, every immigrant has to compete with dozens of qualified finns who have homefield benefit.

Nokia is equal opportunity employer and it is looking for diversification of its working force. Skill competing between workers and candidate are very essential and required. To be desired for a company and be completive each IT-engineer should continuously improve his skills (well, should stop writing here and go back to tech book reading )

And finally... IT IS JUST ONE COMPANY! It will not give jobs to 100 000 foreigners most of whom are not IT people FFS. Get that head out before you suffocate.

No. I sooner don't know IT companies within Kehä 3 where English is not official language. At least Tietoenator, Flander, Nokia, Hybrid.

[Tiwaz]

How large percentage does not speak finnish?

I can't answer.

Find out, it might be shocking revelation.

And do they only hire foreigners? If not, every immigrant has to compete with dozens of qualified finns who have homefield benefit.

Nokia is equal opportunity employer and it is looking for diversification of its working force. Skill competing between workers and candidate are very essential and required. To be desired for a company and be completive each IT-engineer should continuously improve his skills (well, should stop writing here and go back to tech book reading )

Which does not say anything. They are fighting against finnish guys with finnish certificates who know how the system works and who are... Guess what, very skilled. If you think finnish IT-engineer somehow does not improve all the time you are a fool.

I am adding new "letters" to my CV all the time.

And finally... IT IS JUST ONE COMPANY! It will not give jobs to 100 000 foreigners most of whom are not IT people FFS. Get that head out before you suffocate.

No. I sooner don't know IT companies within Kehä 3 where English is not official language. At least Tietoenator, Flander, Nokia, Hybrid.

Wow, that is what... 4 companies out of which 3 are big ones. Are you still failing to realise that they are the big, visible tip of the iceberg? They do NOT represent finnish IT business as whole. Are you somehow thick if you can't figure out that what company with 10 000 people and what company with 10-30 people look at in the applicant are totally different things? For one taking in 10 guys is minor detail while other one has to carefully estimate risks and problems coming from hiring just one?

Most jobs are NOT in Flander, Nokia, Hybrid and TE. They are NOT representatives of S-M size companies who hire most people. It is clear you have no idea what you really speak about. Yeah, S-M size companies might hire immigrant but they are far more conservative in hiring. Immigrant is too big risk. Like said, hiring immigrant and having him leave after getting breakdown due to darkness is unacceptable risk.

And again, those 100 000 are not all qualified IT-engineers or engineers of any area. Most of them are not. So how you get jobs for them? Ones that do not require being able to communicate with finns in finnish?

Oh yeah, you do not know but you remember to mention that IT business accepts english only people. Yeah, we know.

WHAT ABOUT THE REST?

[Rick1]

1) Finland needs workers for work that the fins do not want to do (salary or workcircumstances)
2) You get (rather easily) work when you are young and technical educated (this is nerd country at its best)
3) Foreigner is not known (what a farmer does not know he does not eat) and when you have to compete with alcoholic fin you will lose or have to wait a couple of months (if they really do not find anybody)

I can continue but please do not say to me that it is easy to get a job if there is about 30 percent (registered) foreign unemployment in this country. I know it is not black and white but it please look at facts and do not think that if you are lucky or good in a certain field that that counts for everybody.

[sinikettu]

Jobs with the likes of Nokia are not what this is all about.
The main need is in the Service Industries and Health and Social Services.
I read somewhere, probably the Hesa, that over 40% of current Social Services managers are due to retire in the next 5 years, normal rate is closer to 25%.

The Headline reads.
Finland Needs 100,000 Foreign Workers

I thought I should repeat my earlier post.


Nokia do not need 100.000 new staff...not in Finland anyway..Hungary and Romania.
Tietoenator do not either.
Who needs these 100,000 workers and what qualifications do they require?
IT skills.. I doubt it.

The Government knows only too well that most of the 10,000 labour shortageare going to need FINNISH language.
Social Services, Health Care, Service Industries, these all serve a population the majority of which only speaks Finnish.

There was a time, about 30 to 40 years ago, when English was not taught in Finnish schools.
The baby boom of the 1950s.
Those who were at school then are now in their 60s, there are lots of them.

The other problem is these labour shortages are not just inside R3.
They are worst out in the small towns with small populations...nation wide.

[rinso]

The other problem is these labour shortages are not just inside R3.
They are worst out in the small towns with small populations...nation wide.

In these small villages there are very little jobs. and most are indeed in health/social care, administration (kunta) and customer service. They are all in a 100% Finnish (or Finnish/Swedish) environment. Introducing a foreign language to the work floor cases more problems than it solves. It is easier to postpone the recruiting till you find a Finnish speaking candidate.
If you want to solve the labour shortage with foreigners, you have to develop a good integration program, not only with basic language skills, but also with social/cultural aspects of the countryside and work experience there.

[sinikettu]

I believe there is more than just a little bit of the Finnish media's tendancy to make occasional token gestures towards "the immigrant population" in this article.

Fact is that too many of the Non Finnish population are not employed in a way that utilises their education and skills, and many are not employed at all.
Rick is not far out with his statement.
there is about 30 percent (registered) foreign unemployment in this country.

This fact embarrases the government, because they should have anticipated this problem situation when Finland joined the EU, and it's freedom of labour movement.

Daah ..Lots of people who dont speak Finnish have moved here...what can we do?

They make statements to the Press that "there are 1000s of vacancies if only these lazy foreigners will learn to speak Finnish"
The result is an article like this one.

When I moved here 12+ years ago, the standard of teaching Finnish to foreigners was poor.
There has not been adequate improvement.

[Tiwaz]

So?

And yet we have lots of immigrants, even on this board, who somehow have managed to get fluent finnish skills.

And few who have somehow managed to avoid learning at all.

This brings to my mind possibility that those with motivation to learn, actually learn while those who have questionable motivation have mainly tried to find way to get through life with as little finnish as possible.

You can't make people learn languages. They have to want to learn.

Someone may come and say "I want to learn but teaching is not good enough/it is too difficult"

Perhaps what you try to say is "I don't want to actually put effort to learning, I want to learn in effortless way."
In which case I again point at the point about motivation.

[sammy]

You can't make people learn languages. They have to want to learn.

Necessity can, on the other hand, be a good motivator

But in a more serious vein, what interests me is how (let's assume people actually ARE motivated to learn Finnish) we could find a solution to this problem: learning Finnish takes time, even on intensive courses; most people however would like to find work soon afer coming to the country - to suppost themselves & possibly their families, too. As has been mentioned often, this may not be such a big dilemma for IT people, but what about people in those professions where language skills, not only skills and qualifications, ARE very important? How to combine effective language learning and at the same time provide means of income?

[Tiwaz]

To put it simply, there is no practical solution.

Having someone else sit next to you babysitting to translate is problematic on many levels. First you have to pay for this person who needs to understand what you are doing. I doubt I could act as aid for foreign LVI-engineer since I have very limited understanding on concepts and vocalbulary required. Hell, I might be pushed to act as one for cashier.

So we have work output of little over one person while having 2 wages to pay. (assuming babysit tries to perform his/her job on the side)

Just trying to force clients to use english is not really option either. I would not visit store where I have to explain stuff in english if there was option of going to store where I can do my business in finnish.

So solution would be job away from customer contact and have native doing those jobs switched to customer contact... Problem would be, would this immigrant have ability to perform this task adequately? Or would there be enough natives who could be transferred into different duties while having duties which this immigrant can do.

Does anyone have alternatives besides ones mentioned?

We have to accept that there are things that just cannot be made work well no matter how much you want.

[sinikettu]

There is no instant solution.
But not enough is being done to improve the situation..

Tizwaz rabbiting on about motivation infers again "the lazy immigrants should do more to help themsleves ". This is an old song.
Some can quickly learn Finnish, but some try and try and never succeed.

Unfortunately those who succeed do not always have the other skills needed by employers.
I repeat...When I moved here 12+ years ago, the standard of teaching Finnish to foreigners was poor.
There has not been adequate improvement.
(By the way I have no problems with my Finnish or Swedish).

The government (via YLE) says that Finland has a huge shortage of people to fill lots of vacancies.
It cries out for more foreigners, but offers no solutuion to the language problem.