Do stores start to be open on Sundays now?

[Hank W.]

There is a lot we can do as individuals to right wrongs and change bad policies.

Well, what if it is a good policy. What if you are being ridiculous? Theres always the flipside of the burger... Like on vappuaatto I was quite famished, but everything and everyone was closed at 18. Well, what was the wrong? Me wanting someone I couldn't have or people having a holiday? Individuality and egocentrism would demand me ranting of the "bad service" while that would be totally ridiculous from everybody elses point of view.

[sammy]

people having a holiday? Individuality and egocentrism would demand me ranting of the "bad service" while that would be totally ridiculous from everybody elses point of view.

No Hank, you see everyone's ENTITLED to feel the need to go shopping for that six-pack of diet Pepsi at 4:30 a.m. Sunday morning... ergo, someone has the duty to provide such a service. Sunday shopping is an atavistic basic need of human beings, the fulfillment of which should be secured, rather than inhibited, by force of law

Nah. Seriously speaking, I don't give a damn really whether my local shops are open or closed, but to be honest I rather like the underlying idea that not everything is available at all times. If not for any particularly religious or ideological reson, but let's say a philosophical one. If Sunday closures are seen as the last bastion against all-encompassing 24/7 consumerism and "I-want-it-all-now" thinking, then I'm all for keeping up the tradition

To put it short - JD, it's not really an issue unless you make it an issue. And yes, if the shops are open on Sundays I do occasionally go shopping, but it's not something I "need" or "miss" at all. The decisions on how to use and organise my allotted hours of the day is made on a quite different set of priorities and interests altogether.

Just my opinion...

[EP]

Okay I personally find the respecting of the Sabbath Day in Israel to be rediculous. But I understand the history and religious meaning behind it and I would assume to many business owners and workers its a very important tradition, something which would be done whether it was the law or not. Same can be said for the the spanish ciesta, its can get really hot in that region of the world at that time. Its also a tradition people have been doing for many, many years and its taken seriously by a lot of people.

Well, the shops have always been closed Sundays in Finland. So we might say it is also a tradition. And there is "a religious meaning" behind it.

There used to be a time when stores closed at 5 Mon-Fri, and at 2 on Saturdays. No Sunday opening, not even in summer or December. And people actually put on Sunday clothes and went to church. Or listened to the service from a radio. No talking allowed before the service was over. The only respectable Sunday activities were church, "Sunday walk" and visiting relatives and/or friends.

[Jukka Aho]

There used to be a time when stores closed at 5 Mon-Fri, and at 2 on Saturdays. No Sunday opening, not even in summer or December. And people actually put on Sunday clothes and went to church. Or listened to the service from a radio. No talking allowed before the service was over. The only respectable Sunday activities were church, "Sunday walk" and visiting relatives and/or friends.

One of my relatives – now sadly deceased – moved to Germany back in the 1950s. Pretty soon afterwards she received some sort of an official complaint/notice from her neighbors who had caught a glimpse of her – through a window – painting one of the rooms in the confines of her own home... on Sunday. Apparently that kind of barbaric behavior was a source of unimaginable horror in the neighborhood, and could definitely not be tolerated or the society would implode and collapse. (Or something.) Another thing that only served to accent the severity of her crime was that she hadn’t bought the standard-issue white lace curtains... which everybody knows you must have.

[kay30]

No Hank, you see everyone's ENTITLED to feel the need to go shopping for that six-pack of diet Pepsi at 4:30 a.m. Sunday morning... ergo, someone has the duty to provide such a service. Sunday shopping is an atavistic basic need of human beings, the fulfillment of which should be secured, rather than inhibited, by force of law

I agree! Oh wait, you were being sarcastic... How I miss the days of 3am grocery shopping...

Seriously though. I wish the shops were always open on Sunday. I hate the 5pm alcoholic rush on Saturday at the local grocery store to get everything you need 'till Monday morning while you battle people getting their fix at Alko. I don't even think it has anything to do with consumerism to want to buy things on a Sunday. For me at least, it is purely practical. With my work schedule, sometimes the other days just are not possible. People work really odd hours these days. It's no longer a 9-4 world where you can be assured of making it home before the shops close. And if you do only have to work 9-4, you are luckier than I am.

All the Finns I talk to think it's ridiculous that the stores are still closed on Sunday. Especially the ones who have left for abroad and have now had a taste of (normal) life where you are not punished for being busy during the week. And yeah, I think a lot of store employees would welcome the chance to make a bit of extra cash on a Sunday, if they were given the option. I mean, it's not like not buying things on Sunday somehow makes us all better people. We just buy extra on Saturday or Monday.

And it would not bother me so much if it was at least a consistent position. None of this: "Well, it's OK in December and summer but simply unacceptable the rest of the year!" Someone, please explain the logic behind that.*

And while I am at it...why is there such a concern with shopping and shop employees when people have no problem with tons of other people working on Sunday? Last time I checked bus drivers, coffee shops, restaurants, movie theatres, taxi drivers, hotel employees, etc all worked on Sunday. If Sunday is such a sacred day off and since we need to be so anti-consumer, shouldn't all those people have the day off as well? That way, we could all sit at home doing nothing all day and twiddling our thumbs and thinking about what good, decent, holier-than-thou people we are since we did not buy a bottle of Pepsi Max on Sunday. Maybe we would even get so bored we would start reading the Bible. Though, if we did not own one, we would still have to wait 'till Monday to buy one.

end rant.

* I don't really want an explanation because there is no explanation that I would find suitable for this archaic law.

[Rob A.]

Well...another predictable debate... I've gone through this twice now...First time in the early '80s here in British Columbia when the store hours "opened up"...then, again, in the late 80s when Ontario did the same. The debates on those occasions were exactly same as what is going on here...and I mean EXACTLY...

I think my views align quite closely with those expressed in sammy's post above...

At first, though, I actually didn't mind. It was kind of nice to buy stuff on Sundays, or at 10 PM on a Monday evening....I remember buying something in Home Depot one time at about 2:00AM...

But now it's just kind of boring, and I miss those quiet Sundays of decades ago... I don't think it's all that great for family relationships...unless, I guess, you have a family that is only interested in buying stuff...

The debates here, these days, seem to be more around infractions of anti-noise by-laws... And other than the noise issue, I'm not entirely sure who sets the hours....it seems the mall-owners have the main say in that...they want "traffic volume" and you as an individual store operator can't exactly do whatever you want...

Anyway, carry on the debate... But, I kind of think it's just simply a matter of the Borg mantra... "Resistance is futile...Your life as it has been is over."...... The commercial interests will prevail...they use the "logic" of the modern age...

[ilikepeanutbutter]

Thanks for the info on the stores being open!

[Iseult]

I knew someone would bring this up. And it comes down to this what is more important to you? If spending sunday with your family is, a simple I can work any day but sunday to your manger will fix that problem. There are plenty of people who want the money that working those hours will give them and they will do it gladly. Employers don't have to twist peoples arms to work sundays.

If only! As a teenager in the summer, I worked at a pub/restaurant and a supermarket, both open seven days a week, and there was no such thing as saying "Oh I don't work Sundays" to one's manager. You either did or you didn't work at all. Since I worked five days a week, I could find that on the rota my free days of the week were Tuesday and Friday, for instance. No chance of planning holidays or going anywhere overnight. At least if the establishment where you work is closed on Sundays, you can make plans in advance for that day.
Needless to say, I did NOT get paid extra for working Sundays since I worked five days a week and got two other days off.

Oh, and my theories regarding the Sunday opening hours happening in the summer and December are twofold:
1) people shop more in December and potentially in the summer too (although I can't imagine why)
2) these are precisely the times when shops employ extra help, therefore the selection of people to put on the Sunday rota is larger. I think you would be hard pressed to find shop employees who would be willing to put up with a day off here and another there on a permanent basis, especially considering how low the salaries are to begin with. Sure some people do it for awhile (hey, I did), but really... Would you?

[kay30]

If you work in a service business (hotel, retail shop, restaurant, etc.) then you need to serve the customer needs. Period. You can't just work when you feel like it. If I worked in the tourism field here, I would be pissed that the shops are closed on Sunday because it's lousy customer service. Why should a tourist return here when there will be at least one guaranteed day of their stay with very little to do? After all, they did not come to Finland to sit inside on Sunday and think how nice it is to not buy anything. They came (in part) to buy all kinds of Finnish design products that they cannot get at home.

If one does not like working weekends in a service business, they need to get an office job. I've worked plenty of retail jobs. Eventually I got tired of working on the weekends, so I switched fields when I could. If people don't know that retail = working on weekends, then they are extremely naive.

But yeah, maybe one day people here will get over their issues with "serving others" and realize what it takes to have decent customer service.

[jamie_designer]

I knew someone would bring this up. And it comes down to this what is more important to you? If spending sunday with your family is, a simple I can work any day but sunday to your manger will fix that problem. There are plenty of people who want the money that working those hours will give them and they will do it gladly. Employers don't have to twist peoples arms to work sundays.

If only! As a teenager in the summer, I worked at a pub/restaurant and a supermarket, both open seven days a week, and there was no such thing as saying "Oh I don't work Sundays" to one's manager.

Honestly did you ever ask? or did you just assume that their was nothing that could be done about the situation?

I will give you that its most likely not as simple as a quick "I don't work sunday's" to your manager but, It still comes down to whats important to you. If family time is important to you, then your shift on sunday. Then you got a big problem and you need to talk to your employer or manager about what can be done to fix that problem. I am 90% sure that employers could find someone who wants to work on sundays and 90% sure they would rather have someone working for them who is happy to be there. If the employer is not willing to work with you, find an employer who is.

Maybe you are closer to your family then I am to mine, but when I was a teenager working in a grocery shop, the only reason I wanted a Sunday off to was my friends had plans I wanted to be a part of. I don't believe I ever asked for a weekend off to hang out with my friends because I saw them during the week at school and work and money was more important to me. Although I did ask for time off work to go to a few family functions here and there and my employer was happy to give me the time off.

Employers are human beings they have mothers and fathers, sons and daughters they know what its like to work and raise a family, most of them at least know this and if you have a vaild problem, they are going to do what they can to help you out. You just have to ask and if its important to you why wouldn't you.

[Rosamunda]

If you work in a service business (hotel, retail shop, restaurant, etc.) then you need to serve the customer needs. Period. You can't just work when you feel like it. If I worked in the tourism field here, I would be pissed that the shops are closed on Sunday because it's lousy customer service. Why should a tourist return here when there will be at least one guaranteed day of their stay with very little to do? After all, they did not come to Finland to sit inside on Sunday and think how nice it is to not buy anything. They came (in part) to buy all kinds of Finnish design products that they cannot get at home.

Rauma in July is NOT Finland in general. And anyway, the problem is solved since tourists flocking into the UNESCO heritage streets of Rauma on Sunday afternoons can buy their handmade lace bookmarks BECAUSE THE SHOPS ARE OPEN ON SUNDAYS IN SUMMER. How many handmade lace bookmark buyers are in Rauma on Sunday afternoons in November, or April, or February? Not many. And there aren't many in Helsinki either, honest. OTOH there are always shops open on Suomenlinna on Sundays all year round and also in Fiskars, which are both popular tourist destinations. And... I would argue that there is plenty to do in Helsinki on Sundays that does not involve shopping.

I thought the discussion here was really about supermarkets and furniture stores etc, not about little boutiques selling design stuff.

I think Sunday opening of large retail outlets is an EXCEPTION in Europe rather than the rule. It's commonplace in the UK but not in France, or Germany, or Denmark, Ireland etc (most of which, along with Finland, had higher GDP growth this millennium than, for example, the USA). What you are really saying is that Europe should do the same as the USA because the USA is The Model that Europe should emulate. Yet many Europeans are now consciously opting out of a system that revolves around bling-bling consumerism.

[kay30]

What you are really saying is that Europe should do the same as the USA because the USA is The Model that Europe should emulate. Yet many Europeans are now consciously opting out of a system that revolves around bling-bling consumerism.

Really? Where did I say this? Can you point me to the part in my post where I mentioned emulating the US because I certainly don't remember writing that.

Opt-out of whatever you feel like. I really don't care. But please don't tell me what I am actually saying or thinking. It's just rude and condescending. You don't know me and don't put words in my mouth.

Thanks.

[jamie_designer]

Rauma in July is NOT Finland in general.

Never said it was.

the problem is solved since tourists flocking into the UNESCO heritage streets of Rauma on Sunday afternoons can buy their handmade lace bookmarks BECAUSE THE SHOPS ARE OPEN ON SUNDAYS IN SUMMER. How many handmade lace bookmark buyers are in Rauma on Sunday afternoons in November, or April, or February? Not many. And there aren't many in Helsinki either, honest. OTOH there are always shops open on Suomenlinna on Sundays all year round and also in Fiskars, which are both popular tourist destinations. And... I would argue that there is plenty to do in Helsinki on Sundays that does not involve shopping.

So your saying that because there are less tourist in Finland over the winter months, that makes it okay for the state to force its no shops open sunday law on citizens of Finland. Your saying business owners shouldn't be able to open their stores on sunday, employees shouldn't be able to work, and local consumers shouldn't be able to shop.

I thought the discussion here was really about supermarkets and furniture stores etc, not about little boutiques selling design stuff.

By the sounds of it penelope, it doesn't matter what kind of shop someone owns, you believe the government should force them to stay closed on sunday's, when its not summer or christmas...Is that a correct picture of your view point?

I think Sunday opening of large retail outlets is an EXCEPTION in Europe rather than the rule. It's commonplace in the UK but not in France, or Germany, or Denmark, Ireland etc (most of which, along with Finland, had higher GDP growth this millennium than, for example, the USA). What you are really saying is that Europe should do the same as the USA because the USA is The Model that Europe should emulate. Yet many Europeans are now consciously opting out of a system that revolves around bling-bling consumerism.

I can't speak for Kay but thats not what I was saying at all, I don't even know where you got that idea from, has anyone even mentioned USA other then you in this thread. We are talking about Finland and the issue involving the closure of stores on sunday at certain times of years. Finns use the stores open on sundays during the summer and at christmas, Business owners are happy to keep their stores open for their customers, enough employees don't mind taking a sunday shift. How does the government justify steping into this and shutting down businesses by law at certain times of year.

We know what you think, so you don't have to keep telling us (although I am sure you will, which is okay), you want the stores shut down, you don't need them open on sunday, you don't want them open. End of story as far as you are concerend ... right?

[EP]

Business owners are happy to keep their stores open for their customers

Not necessarily. My parents were shop-owners. But SMALL shop-owners, the never could afford outside help. And after the shop closed at 5, they still had hours to do, and were hardly ever free before nine in the evening. Then came some law that stated that shops CAN BE OPEN until 6 (or something like that). They were horrified. Big stores with employees would be open longer, and they would have to do the same. It just meant one or two hours more work every day (except Sunday) not being able to do the orders/arrange the shop/pay and write bills and so on. So after that the work day never ended before 10.

Like already said, Sunday openings and/or closures is not something special to Finland. In most of Europe shops are closed on Sundays, except some big supermarkets and 100% tourist shops.

[Hank W.]

So your saying that because there are less tourist in Finland over the winter months, that makes it okay for the state to force its no shops open sunday law on citizens of Finland.

Well, I look at it the law is that shops are closed on Sundays as a rule, and the Sunday openings are an extra privilege granted due to conciderations of eg. tourists.