Do stores start to be open on Sundays now?

[blaugrau]

I'd be interested to know if in the USA there still is a Sunday/weekend bonus for employees when shops are open every hour of every day of the year? My understanding is that such a bonus (which is often one important argument of the pro-sunday-opening-camp) only can exist if open shops on Sundays are the exception, rather than the rule. So I would expect that this little bit of extra pay for employees would vanish once opened shops on weekends are the norm.

It's funny to follow this discussion and the strong emotions involved with this issue.. I think most here arguing against the Finnish regulation wouldn't survive even one weekend in Austria, where even food shops are closed on Sundays (and shops close around 7pm every weekday, and around 5 pm on Saturdays).

[zam]

And to add some salt into this soup:

The service sector labour unions generally are against extending opening hours or retail shops. I assume that they represent (or at least shoud) the opinion of the majority of their members = e.g. shop assistants.

For me personally, I'd be supporting the Sunday opening hours, but still I cannot understand why the shops stay open longer in the evening on a Sunday than on a Saturday! Wouldn't 6 hours of shopping be enough for a Sunday (12 - 18 instead of 12 - 21)?
And the reason for late opening time on Sundays is a religious one: shops are not open until the Sunday services have ended .

[Rosamunda]

Your saying business owners shouldn't be able to open their stores on sunday, employees shouldn't be able to work, and local consumers shouldn't be able to shop.

So, just out of interest... who are the "business owners" Do you imagine that all the major retail outlets in Finland are owned by altruistic entrepreneurs called Pekka?

But yes, you are right. I don't think the big retail outlets should open all year round on Sundays just as I don't think local consumers want to shop.

In Finland (and other countries in Europe) I believe that most people are happy to finish work at 4 or 5 or 6pm and shop after work, or maybe on Saturdays and then keep their Sundays free for other stuff.

If retail opening hours were a REAL problem in Finland then internet grocery shopping websites would've mushroomed (in a country where people seem happy to do a lot of shopping on-line). But this hasn't been the case. In fact I'm not sure I know of any major retail chains operating internet delivery services.

By the sounds of it penelope, it doesn't matter what kind of shop someone owns, you believe the government should force them to stay closed on sunday's, when its not summer or christmas...Is that a correct picture of your view point?

Nope, incorrect. I am running a shop all summer in a tourist destination and we will be open from 11-6pm seven days a week. I have no problems at all with the current legislation that allows small grocery stores to open on Sundays all year round and larger shops to open on Sundays in summer and at Christmas. It works well, isn't broken, so why change it? If large retail stores opened every Sunday, many small businesses would be forced to close down. Places like Siwa and Valintatalo that are allowed to open on Sundays would see their Sunday takings do a dive.

I can't speak for Kay but thats not what I was saying at all, I don't even know where you got that idea from, has anyone even mentioned USA other then you in this thread. We are talking about Finland and the issue involving the closure of stores on sunday at certain times of years.

I was alluding to various suggestions that Finnish businesses know nothing about customer service. The retail sector has sufficient clout in this country (nowadays) to lobby for change, if only they felt the public was behind them. They obviously don't.

[otyikondo]

I propose we distil this largely redundant thread down to its bare essentials and build a template for future similar threads, so that everyone will know their appointed roles, and we will be able to go through it like excrement through a goosey cloaca and move on to something more edifying. Like the spiralling price of Marmite on world markets.


Please note that the ABSENCE of something can just as easily be replaced by the PRESENCE of something, after which naturally the congregation's antiphonal responses will be reversed.

1. Why don't they do xxxxxxxx in Finland? I want xxxxxxxx and it isn't here.
2. But Finns don't want xxxxxxxx, dumbo.
3. Finns I spoke to do. (Can include girlfriend or boyfriend in this.)
4. If you don't like it, lump it.
5. They don't have xxxxxxxx in yyyy, zzzzz, or äääääää, either, you know.
6. Why is it that always when these threads come up someone compares with other places? Or tells me to go elsewhere if I don't like it?
7. The Finns definately want xxxxxx really badly. Well, I do anyway.
8. I read in Helsinki Times* [insert English-language publication of choice here] that Finns are absolutely gagging for xxxxxxxx, but the GOVERNMENT won't allow it because they want to make money out of qqqqqqq.
9. If you bothered to learn Finnish and actually read the Finnish-language media you'd see that that is a crock.
10. Why is it that so many people want to import their own cultural baggage when they go abroad? Like AAAAAAAA with his/her utter crap about xxxxxxxx.
11. Personal insults are the last resort of the defeated (or dafeated).
12. It is only state-sponsored violence to ban xxxxxxxx. And a vestige of Finland's recent Communist (sic) past.
Lucky 13. Reserved for the standard ridgemd interjection advocating waiving (sic) the white flag or driving one's Hummer over xxxxxxxx, just like in Darfur.
14. A caustic response to 13.
15. Only Nazis want (optional: don't want) xxxxxxxx anyway.
16. Neil deletes thread, invoking Rule 24.1, the ad hominem embargo, or Rule 36.2, Godwin's Law.
(repeat)

This fast-tracking would save considerable bandwidth and yet allow us all to partake in the drama. In order to avoid boredom, we could draw lots for which number one gets each time. Except No. 13. I'm afraid ridgemd gets the short straw and is typecast.

[incster]

Can we make that a sticky?

[annekmc]

Well I do work in a shop and no it's not fun having to work on a Sunday, but regardless it is always our busiest day. The shop I work in now is a local shop (for local people) it's not a food shop and Sunday is by far our best day. I previously worked in Citymarket and again Sunday was always our best day easily more than doubling the takings on most other days except Saturday.

So Jamie I reckon you are correct, the general public definately seem to want and approve of Sunday opening. I certainly do and when I don't work on Sundays I go shopping (with the family)

If even in my little village, full of Bible Bashers everyone heads out to the stores on a Sunday, then it really should accepted that Sunday opening should be a choice that shop owners can make, lets face it the government allowing Sunday opening doesn't mean it is compulsary for all shops to open. Halpa Halli never open Sundays and they seem to do OK, but surely shops deserve the right to choose for themselves.

[jamie_designer]

If even in my little village, full of Bible Bashers everyone heads out to the stores on a Sunday, then it really should accepted that Sunday opening should be a choice that shop owners can make, lets face it the government allowing Sunday opening doesn't mean it is compulsary for all shops to open. Halpa Halli never open Sundays and they seem to do OK, but surely shops deserve the right to choose for themselves.

My thoughts exactly.

[Karhunkoski]

I would probably support an extension of Monday-Friday (large) supermarket shopping hours over extension of Sunday trading, perhaps to 10 or 11pm. As Sammy said, it's rather nice to have one day a week that isn't devoted to greedy consumerism, and at least Siwa is open, so there is no excuse to starve. I used to love the "flexible" shopping opportunities in the UK, but that was before I knew any better, and before I learned to appreciate that life has more to offer than pushing a shopping trolley down the aisles on a Sunday afternoon.

[Iseult]

If only! As a teenager in the summer, I worked at a pub/restaurant and a supermarket, both open seven days a week, and there was no such thing as saying "Oh I don't work Sundays" to one's manager.

Honestly did you ever ask? or did you just assume that their was nothing that could be done about the situation?

Why yes, I did ask. Of course, there was an option of requesting particular shifts for the following week. Too bad they hardly ever came true (although considering that there were only 3-4 people working at each establishment, perhaps it's not such a big surprise).

If the employer is not willing to work with you, find an employer who is.

That's a pretty naive thing to say considering the bitter competition for summer jobs in Finland, especially in small towns such as the one I grew up in.

Maybe you are closer to your family then I am to mine, but when I was a teenager working in a grocery shop, the only reason I wanted a Sunday off to was my friends had plans I wanted to be a part of. I don't believe I ever asked for a weekend off to hang out with my friends because I saw them during the week at school and work and money was more important to me. Although I did ask for time off work to go to a few family functions here and there and my employer was happy to give me the time off.

Oddly enough, I had (and still have) friends outside school. Even friends living in other towns (imagine that)! Not to mention rock festivals etc. that would have been nice to go to...

To make my viewpoint clear, I do enjoy shopping on Sundays as much as the next person. I especially enjoyed it in the UK where it was quite obvious that the Sunday/weekend staff were different from the midweek staff (i.e. teenagers). However, I do not enjoy thinking that some shops have people working there on Sundays against their wishes because the employer has an upper hand in dictating the rules. Of course shop assistants are free to find other types of jobs, but for some it is not an option.

[sinikala]

1. Why don't they do xxxxxxxx in Finland? I want xxxxxxxx and it isn't here.
2. But Finns don't want xxxxxxxx, dumbo.
3. Finns I spoke to do. (Can include girlfriend or boyfriend in this.)
4. If you don't like it, lump it.
5. They don't have xxxxxxxx in yyyy, zzzzz, or äääääää, either, you know.
6. Why is it that always when these threads come up someone compares with other places? Or tells me to go elsewhere if I don't like it?
7. The Finns definately want xxxxxx really badly. Well, I do anyway.
8. I read in Helsinki Times* [insert English-language publication of choice here] that Finns are absolutely gagging for xxxxxxxx, but the GOVERNMENT won't allow it because they want to make money out of qqqqqqq.
9. If you bothered to learn Finnish and actually read the Finnish-language media you'd see that that is a crock.
10. Why is it that so many people want to import their own cultural baggage when they go abroad? Like AAAAAAAA with his/her utter crap about xxxxxxxx.
11. Personal insults are the last resort of the defeated (or dafeated).
12. It is only state-sponsored violence to ban xxxxxxxx. And a vestige of Finland's recent Communist (sic) past.
Lucky 13. Reserved for the standard ridgemd interjection advocating waiving (sic) the white flag or driving one's Hummer over xxxxxxxx, just like in Darfur.
14. A caustic response to 13.
15. Only Nazis want (optional: don't want) xxxxxxxx anyway.
16. Neil deletes thread, invoking Rule 24.1, the ad hominem embargo, or Rule 36.2, Godwin's Law.
(repeat)

This fast-tracking would save considerable bandwidth and yet allow us all to partake in the drama. In order to avoid boredom, we could draw lots for which number one gets each time. Except No. 13. I'm afraid ridgemd gets the short straw and is typecast.

Hats off / dofs cap / tugs forelock in the general direction of the right honourable member for Namibia.

[sammy]

I propose we distil this largely redundant thread down to its bare essentials...

Brilliant The only relatively common thread ingredient you missed there would be the inevitable posting of semi-nude cheerleaders and beauty contest winners (or equivalent) with the caption "(insert country name here) has the most beautiful women in the world" whenever a slightest mention is made of female women of the opposite sex.

[otyikondo]

I feel dirty. I am a bad person.

I have posted this silly fast-track thing above because I am steadfastly of the opinion that most threads run their usual course like a river to the sea, and yet, and YET, what do I see in this thread - written off so foolishly by my careless hand as moribund - but the ultimate, the HOLY GRAIL of board-dom, the ****CHANGE OF POINT OF VIEW****, that rara avis of which board twitchers speak only in hushed reverent whispers...

Of course it passed largely unnoticed in all the hubbub, but the discerning eye (and anyone wondering what SORT of shop was in question that did so much business on a Sunday, apart from a flower shop) reveals that in September of 2007, one of our number typed (on things to like about Finland):

The 4 seasons

Great place to bring up children

I even now like that the shops are closed on a Sunday and you have to do something other than shop all day.

Most of all, the fact that I can have a huge house and garden here for less than the price of my 1 bedroom flat back in Scotland! (I do live in the country and nowhere near Helsinki, I'm sure prices there are much higher)

I could go on all day really, I just love it here and it has become better and better in the 8 years I have lived here. You'd never get me to move back to Scotland now!

Suggesting that, after eight years of indoctrination, she had got with the programme and realised that the thing to do on Sundays is make a lot of coffee and spread Hesari out on the floor, rather than pushing a wonky trolley around the frozen calamari aisles with other unfortunates.

HOWEVER... the winter of discontent brought radical changes to things. So radical in fact that we have to consider it a "Change of POV" sighting, an ornithological rarity on a par with that Central Asian Azure tit (Cyanistes cyanus) that showed up here a few years ago.

For in May 2008, the same poster declared thusly:

Well I do work in a shop and no it's not fun having to work on a Sunday, but regardless it is always our busiest day. The shop I work in now is a local shop (for local people) it's not a food shop and Sunday is by far our best day. I previously worked in Citymarket and again Sunday was always our best day easily more than doubling the takings on most other days except Saturday.

So Jamie I reckon you are correct, the general public definately seem to want and approve of Sunday opening. I certainly do and when I don't work on Sundays I go shopping (with the family).

I stand corrected and will not rashly make such flippant suggestions again. And that's daffinate.

[jamie_designer]

I think I understand why you tryed to compare these two quotes, I assume you wanted to make annemkc look like a fool. If thats the case then 1. Congratulations on being a great human being and 2. You failed to accomplish your mission.

I even now like that the shops are closed on a Sunday and you have to do something other than shop all day.

Here annekmc states that she at the time of her posting this comment (personally) likes shops being closed on Sunday. A pesonal opinion is not a truth statement, Its a display of one personal preference. Its like saying I like blue. It is not really verifiable, sure you could follow me around and track my reaction to blue coloured things, you may also find I have a preference for green. To me this comment made by annekmc months ago was just another "I like blue" statement. Which means nothing so it was a nice try to catch her flip floping but I think you missed the mark.

Well I do work in a shop and no it's not fun having to work on a Sunday, but regardless it is always our busiest day. The shop I work in now is a local shop (for local people) it's not a food shop and Sunday is by far our best day. I previously worked in Citymarket and again Sunday was always our best day easily more than doubling the takings on most other days except Saturday. So Jamie I reckon you are correct, the general public definately seem to want and approve of Sunday opening. I certainly do and when I don't work on Sundays I go shopping (with the family).

Here annekmc makes a truth statement. Finnish folks seem to want and approve of sunday store openings. Before she makes this statement she tells us how she has come to validate this. This is not a statement of preference, this is not a "I like blue" statement.

Okay so, I believe people are allowed to change their minds, I personally have changed my mind a number of times, I believe you could find some statements on here which I have made, that contradict things I say now. But because we don't know what annekmc opion is right now, lets say she hasn't changed here mind since making her original comment. Do these two things work together. Sure they do and it would read something like this.

I personally prefer shops being closed on sunday because it forces me to do something else with my day. But I recognize that if shops were open I can still spend my day doing something other then shopping and I recognize that a lot of finnish people want to have shops open on Sundays and out of respect for my neighbours whom may prefer that shops stay open sundays all year round I have no problem accepting that shops stay open for people whom want to use them. Perhaps even one Sunday my family and I will use them.

[otyikondo]

I think I understand why you tryed to compare these two quotes, I assume you wanted to make annemkc look like a fool. If thats the case then 1. Congratulations on being a great human being and 2. You failed to accomplish your mission.

From what I've read of what you write, I don't think you understand anything very much, so don't strain yourself trying now. And trust me, annekmc was NOT my target. But I probably hit what I was aiming at, judging by the ""Se koira älähtää" sounds coming out of the bushes.

[jamie_designer]

From what I've read of what you write, I don't think you understand anything very much, so don't strain yourself trying now.

Is that meant to hurt my feelings? or perhaps it is an attempt to make me look like a fool. Although if it was true, what you're saying... and I don't understand anything very much. Keeping your mouth shut while I wrote more foolish post would have been a much sweeter victory for you.

And if you understand so much more, why use your intelligence to tear people down. This is just my opinion but it seems like such a waste of time, telling the stupid person in the room they're stupid. Why not use that intelligence of yours to lift people up instead of tearing them down?