Finland-anti foreigners attitudes?????

[USMC-Wife]

Well they are not doing much now against the turks who are bombing the kurds now is it ?
O yes the USA needs the Turks

Sorry but the USA is getting a part back on their plate

Rick1; You are 100% right there. Same goes for the situation in Israel. I am not supporting US politics, per se, I am supporting the poor troops who sacrifice their lives for it, whether they agree with it or not. You may have missed my paragraph where I stated it was piss-poor planning going in the way USA did go to Iraq. My question is, what happened to the UN? Where are they?

[Rick1]

They have a certain minimum of deaths before they come (see Dafur etc.)
More busy with politics and their salary and benefits

Bush was not really cooperative either was he?

[USMC-Wife]

They have a certain minimum of deaths before they come (see Dafur etc.)
More busy with politics and their salary and benefits

Say no more.

Bush was not really cooperative either was he?

Thank goodness Bush is not the only ruler on this planet, so his cooperation shouldn't hinder other countries (what has Finland done?) from getting involved. Or are other countries just going to grab their toys and go home if Bush decides he doesn't want to play? Oh wait, that's right, that's exactly what they did!

[Rick1]

Thank goodness Bush is not the only ruler on this planet, so his cooperation shouldn't hinder other countries (what has Finland done?) from getting involved. Or are other countries just going to grab their toys and go home if Bush decides he doesn't want to play? Oh wait, that's right, that's exactly what they did! [/quote]

Well if Russia was against it then Finland will be like a small pupy being quiet. They are more afraid of Russia than Iran here Oops another visit from the SUPO

I meant Bush was not really on talking terms with the UN when he rushed into Irak was he?

[USMC-Wife]

Well if Russia was against it then Finland will be like a small pupy being quiet. They are more afraid of Russia than Iran here Oops another visit from the SUPO

Does Russia STILL have that much influence on Finland?

[Tiwaz]

I brought my “Support Our Troops” car magnet with me when I moved to Finland, and displayed it on my car for over a year without incident.

Goldie; Yay! Are you an American living in Finland? I would love to hear about your experiences.

As for interventions abroad... Those tend to cause more problems than they solve. Look at Iraq for example. It was stable. Dictatorship, yes. But stable.

Now, few years and over 100 000 dead innocents later it is country preparing itself for civil war. People live in ethnically separated areas, fortified like middle age castles.

As for interventions abroad... Those tend to cause more problems than they solve. Look at Iraq for example. It was stable. Dictatorship, yes. But stable.

Tiwaz; Almost correct. The Kurdish people who managed to survive Saddam's genocide would strongly disagree with you about being stable. As far as being separated ethnically, Iraq has always (for about 4000 years now, I was told by the Iraqis) been divided in tribes and in ethnically and religiously separated areas. Nothing new there. The civil war has been brewing for quite some time, long before outside intervention. I have listened to the accounts of the Shiiat, Sunni and Kurdish first hand while working with them for two years now. The coalition forces did not start the mess, but they certainly did not help much either. However, I am disappointed with the media that the public is kept in ignorance as far as the positive developments in Iraq. Media only reports the bad stuff. US forces are trained to fight wars, yet they are busting their asses off building hospitals, schools, orphanages, water and sewer facilities, roads, etc. But no one reports any of that. There is a lot of good being done in Iraq.

Good is pointless when it is as totally overwhelmed by bad that takes place.

Kurdish massacre? Those were in the eighties. When Saddam was best buddy of US of A. After that he wasn't a threat to flies, even less to kurds. That is just pathetic excuse presented by rightwing media to try to justify crime which has resulted directly in deaths of over 100 000 innocent civilians due to violence. And huge amount more due to poor conditions, lack of medicine and so forth. Not to mention those soldiers who perished (who were by and large conscripts) in vain attempt to defend their country from invasion.

USA has very much exceeded Saddam in efficiency of killing iraqis. And destabilised region of the world we are highly dependant upon for our oil supply.


As for Darfur and rest of the hellholes. Those places are bred with deep grained problems. What if we interfere in Darfur? What is achieved. Sure, EU could put down troops there and force peace. And when troops leave, violence begins again. Why? Because it is symptom of disease, not actual disease.
What used to be Yugoslavia is brewing up again as we speak. Why? Because despite handling the conflict at the time, there was no way to solve actual problem. As long as problem exists, there is no solution.

And solution to problem comes from natives, not from dictation of terms through force of arms.

[Mattlill2000]

Does Russia STILL have that much influence on Finland?

NO!

[Rick1]

Sorry, somebody is knocking on my door have to go. Interrigation normally takes 1 night

[USMC-Wife]

Does Russia STILL have that much influence on Finland?

NO!

Sorry, somebody is knocking on my door have to go. Interrigation normally takes 1 night

Tiwaz;

Kurdish massacre? Those were in the eighties. When Saddam was best buddy of US of A. After that he wasn't a threat to flies, even less to kurds. That is just pathetic excuse presented by rightwing media to try to justify crime which has resulted directly in deaths of over 100 000 innocent civilians due to violence.

I got my information from the Kurds themselves, not right-wing media. On that note though, yes, the right-wing media does try to justify a lot of crap that should not have happened, however, not even the right-wing media reports on what the troops are building in Iraq. I know this because I work with the Marines that come back alive and tell me what's really going on there. Please, Tiwaz, no assumptions.

USA has very much exceeded Saddam in efficiency of killing iraqis.

Sure there are innocent civilians getting killed, however, please do not point your finger at just USA. The majority of the killings are done by insurgents and blaming the USA for it to then have the rest of the world put pressure on the USA to leave so the insurgents can take over completely.

As for Darfur and rest of the hellholes. Those places are bred with deep grained problems. What if we interfere in Darfur? What is achieved. Sure, EU could put down troops there and force peace. And when troops leave, violence begins again. Why? Because it is symptom of disease, not actual disease.
What used to be Yugoslavia is brewing up again as we speak. Why? Because despite handling the conflict at the time, there was no way to solve actual problem. As long as problem exists, there is no solution.

I agree. Here lies the problem; to get involved and "help" or not? Leave them be and turn your back? I sure as hell am glad other countries didn't turn their backs on Finland when Russia wanted us to become part of Russia. But as I mentioned before, the civil war has been going on in Iraq for centuries, sometimes quieting down and then brewing back up again. I asked the Sunni and Shiiat why they just can't let a thousands of year old grudge be and allow the future generation to live in peace, they both told me: "Forgiving is Christian. We are Muslim."

And solution to problem comes from natives, not from dictation of terms through force of arms.

Absolutely. Why can't they understand that?

[Faithful]

My question is, what happened to the UN? Where are they?

Allow me to answer this using my 20ct knowledge the UN is not something you can touch but states that have come together its functions are the worlds IDEAL actually an UTOPIA that will never pass.
It is sad to say with UNIPOLARITY with USA maintaining the STATUS QUO the UN has to TOE the line and do what USA wants.
The UN is mainly controlled by the five permanent members of the SECURITY council and each has a VITO power they include France,GBritain,Russia,China,Mother of all USA.
Aha we know USA'S politics is determined by the MNC like EXXON MOBIL to name but a few so this time round they used BUSH to sale their arms the (ARMS MNC) so bush had to deceive the MASSES IRAQ had weapons of MASS DESTRUCTIONS so that they could go to WAR this meant sale for ARMS company and control for IRAQS oil STUPID SADAM he refused to comply with request to have his territory checked.
Did you know USA is not a member of the international CRIMINAL CORT because if they joined BUSH will be tried with all the share holders of the MNCS that abuse HUMAN RIGHTS the world is SURVIVAL for the fittest and USA is a jungle the one with the largest stick survives don't Quote me just my 20ct thoughts

[Faithful]

I sure as hell am glad other countries didn't turn their backs on Finland when Russia wanted us to become part of Russia.
At that time the status quo was BIPOLAR Thus helping FINLAND was an AMERICAN'S and some EU countries that was against the SOVIET UNIONS strategy.
Have a LOOK at Finland well in the GLOBAL map she is situated in a strategic position geographically at the Border of RUSSIAN some soviet states and the so reffered to as SANE europe an example if you are driving from RUSSIA straight and you are an AMERICAN or non E.european which safe haven will you get straight into FINLAND so good for she is situated in a strategic position GEOGRAPHICALY

[Tiwaz]

[
I got my information from the Kurds themselves, not right-wing media. On that note though, yes, the right-wing media does try to justify a lot of crap that should not have happened, however, not even the right-wing media reports on what the troops are building in Iraq. I know this because I work with the Marines that come back alive and tell me what's really going on there. Please, Tiwaz, no assumptions.

And kurds of course have no interest of their own to explain. Neither do the marines. Apparently you forget human ability to lie even to themselves to justify things they do.

There is no invader/occupier in human history who thought they were doing something bad. It was always for one or another "worthy" cause. Be it defeat of bolshevism, spreading democracy, liberating workers or whatever of dozens of lies invented. It is a lie.

Sure there are innocent civilians getting killed, however, please do not point your finger at just USA. The majority of the killings are done by insurgents and blaming the USA for it to then have the rest of the world put pressure on the USA to leave so the insurgents can take over completely.

No invasion = no insurgents = no deaths.
No invasion = no bombings during invasion = no deaths

Like it or not, blame for causing this all rests squarely on american shoulders, and shoulders of those who helped USA in this idiotic activity.

And, like it or not, insurgents are iraqis. They have whole lot more right to take over than USA installing it's puppet regime.
And puppet regime it is. Just google "Iraq" and "oil law".

I agree. Here lies the problem; to get involved and "help" or not? Leave them be and turn your back? I sure as hell am glad other countries didn't turn their backs on Finland when Russia wanted us to become part of Russia. But as I mentioned before, the civil war has been going on in Iraq for centuries, sometimes quieting down and then brewing back up again. I asked the Sunni and Shiiat why they just can't let a thousands of year old grudge be and allow the future generation to live in peace, they both told me: "Forgiving is Christian. We are Muslim."

And solution to problem comes from natives, not from dictation of terms through force of arms.

Absolutely. Why can't they understand that?

Oh yeah, what nations helped Finland? USA and GB who declared war? Or rest who gave lots of promises but little actual aid. How many foreign divisions served during Winter war on finnish front? How about during continuation war?

Only country that actually helped was Germany. Props to them, despite my dislike for their regime at the time. Rest of the world was useless. Rather even worse than useless, they helped the soviets.

But, bottom line. Do not interfere in what you cannot cure. Darfur is one of those cases. You can stop violence, but you can't take away why they fight.

[Faithful]

Oh yeah, what nations helped Finland? USA and GB who declared war? Or rest who gave lots of promises but little actual aid. How many foreign divisions served during Winter war on finnish front? How about during continuation war?

Only country that actually helped was Germany. Props to them, despite my dislike for their regime at the time. Rest of the world was useless. Rather even worse than useless, they helped the soviets.

But, bottom line. Do not interfere in what you cannot cure. Darfur is one of those cases. You can stop violence, but you can't take away why they fight.
Tiwaz

Posts: 623
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:21 am
German Helped FINLAND for her own self interest US and GB especially US helped to build the NEW FINLAND economically not because they LOVES FINNS so much just because it was for their own interest everything in POLITICS is geared to self interest actually when it comes to discussing DIPLOMACY no one gives a damn hoot about HUMAN RIGHTS.
No politician cares if the MASSES DIE the ELITES are there to satisfy their egos and they don't give a damn what the masses go through wait until one of their own dies mmmh that is when you will see all news FLUSH splashing HUMAN rights human rights
all said and done the world is at the MERCIES of the so called ELITES the RICH even if we talk and talk until our mouths froth there is nothing much we can do but it is nice that we understand it.
All the elites do is send inteligence around to find out the MOODS of the masses used this to get popular and then deceive them.
Then we make noise noise what a coincidence sept 11 then terrosist war then IRAQ invension which was a cheat then now mmmh woman or mixed black and white president give me a break we dont have to be with a PHD from HAVARD to read through the games of the ELITE WOE unto AFRICA the west will ever exploit you.

[Tiwaz]

Just out of curiosity, in which ways GB and USA helped Finland?

I have often run into misconceptions with foreigners that somehow Finland would have been historically in different situation than it actually was.

Example occupied by soviets or receiver of marshall aid.

And I never said germans did not do what they did out of self interest. Still they gave actual help far more than others.

[Faithful]

: Finland-anti foreigners attitudes?????
by Tiwaz on Tue May 13, 2008 8:48 am

Just out of curiosity, in which ways GB and USA helped Finland?

I have often run into misconceptions with foreigners that somehow Finland would have been historically in different situation than it actually was.

Example occupied by soviets or receiver of marshall aid.

And I never said germans did not do what they did out of self interest. Still they gave actual help far more than others.
Tiwaz

Posts: 624
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:21 am
Hallo allow me to repeat again ECONOMICALLY USA helped to BUILD the new FINLAND if you have run into people saying this then better know there is no smoke without fire it is even said that WB had to say FINLAND paid back all it owed because of self interest(i believe the older finnish generation that stayed on after the war were hard working but) some Philosophers say USA had to say that to seduce FINLAND and show RUSSIANS that she (FINLAND)
is part and parcel of USA and since USA didn't show much enemity or threat to FINLAND all FINLAND did was to bandwagon with the US since her enemy was next door.
Okay did german finance FINLAND after the war or you want to say FINLAND sold trees and built the new FINLAND with money from LOGS and LOGS alone mmh paper industry it is aledge the CAPITAL was funded by money lent by USA you are allowed to deconstruct and enlighten me otherwise as we know education has no end what is your say over this claims open up my eyes.