Finnish Socialist want to Tax Inteligence

[Mook]

As far as I can tell, the main benefit of living in Finland is cheap daycare (200 Euros/month as compared to 2000 in some other countries) and that pubs that are open late. On arrival, FInnish girls too might all same fantastic, but after a while you see through the blonde...

A fewn examples:

- the healthcare isn't fantastic either - one friend had bacl problem and went to terveyskeskus where they were told that ther was no chance of being referred to a specialist unless it meant that they couldn't walk.

- Care for the elderly. We had a babysitter that used to work in an old-folks home. Eventually she had to quit because of the level of care. For instance, those that needed nappies (vaipat) got change at 5pm and that had to see them through until 9 in the morning. Mmmm, yes, Lots of respect there.


I could go on, but then I'd be a whiny foreigner. So I'll just pay my huge taxes, quietly fume at the "can I work abroad and get KELA money" spongers and count the days until August when I get to enjoy the "daycare" benefit.

[TampereOwl]

I broadly agree with your point about university education being a universal good. I think they should let this Bologna system bed in before they start @#$% around with the funding, because I would guess (and hope) that in a couple of years people with Bachelors degrees will be more employable than they are now.It's @#$% nuts to start paying someone 500eur a months more for doing the same job, just because they got a piece of paper.

[sinikala]

Depends at whom these graduate taxes would be aimed. Fresh graduates? All people with a degree gained in Finland going back to the year dot? Would those educated outside Finland be liable for the tax too?

IMO the Australian graduate tax system seems to be the fairest. Those who graduate do create wealth for the economy and they pay more tax over a lifetime than non-graduates, however, it seems unfair that for a plumber, a brickie or a cab driver should work their whole career paying tax that allows other people to get educated and make more wonga than them.

If you graduate, and your earnings go above a certain threshold, I don't see a graduate tax as being so unfair.

As for Bologna, it'd be nice to level the playing field, but I can't see it happening... fact is that a Finnish ammattikorkeakoulu B.Sc. is way lower standard than a B.Sc. for example in TKK. And those professors I've listened to at TKK seem to be clear that their B.Sc. degree is not targeted as being any kind of exit point, only a stepping stone on the way to M.Sc. They need to get themselves sorted on the domestic front before they can compare with other (international) bachelors courses.

[Hank W.]

And those professors I've listened to at TKK seem to be clear that their B.Sc. degree is not targeted as being any kind of exit point, only a stepping stone on the way to M.Sc.

So it seems the "bachelor= university dropout" mentality won't be going anywhere for a while.

[Hank W.]

Ah so, here. I suppose this might get onto the International Edition tomorrow. the discussion is lively... and you people say Finns don't get passionate? oh-la-la

[sinikala]

And those professors I've listened to at TKK seem to be clear that their B.Sc. degree is not targeted as being any kind of exit point, only a stepping stone on the way to M.Sc.

So it seems the "bachelor= university dropout" mentality won't be going anywhere for a while.

Don't know, I have never encountered anybody with only a Finnish University bachelors, most seem to get the Masters as they get so many bites of the cherry here.

I know that Licenciate is regarded as kind of a doctoral dropout degree, unless it is later followed by the doctorate.

There is then the issue that the Finnish bachelors graduates (2 years before Masters) will be a year weaker than for example a UK B.Sc. (hons) which needs only 1 more year to Masters.

[Hank W.]

Don't know, I have never encountered anybody with only a Finnish University bachelors

I think the first ones have only graduated in the past few years (or you have some like legal clerks who existed sometime around when oitykondo first entered upriver with his safari )... and you're right it is quite... hrm... untraditional to stop at that.

[ajdias]

IMO the Australian graduate tax system seems to be the fairest. Those who graduate do create wealth for the economy and they pay more tax over a lifetime than non-graduates, however, it seems unfair that for a plumber, a brickie or a cab driver should work their whole career paying tax that allows other people to get educated and make more wonga than them.

Do you have any idea how much value higher education creates for society? Have you estimated the return for society of the availably of a huge mass of people with degrees competing for a job? I don~t know the value but estimate that one reason why ppl with higher education fare less well (in general) here than in other countries is because of the huge amount of graduates. It is also one of the main reasons why Finland heads the league of competitive nations and that surely creates value for your plumbers, cabies and brickies. Someone can dig the study from HS that "shows" that some of these career choices are actually more productive (earn more) through a lifetime than graduates. Sounds fair? At the very least it lightens their job competition allowing them to charge more

I am not sure that I can fetch the data but there seems to be some correlation between a paid tuition system and higher rewards for the education (ie, in countries where tuition is fully paid people who graduate earn relatively more than in countries with free or almost free education). Anyway, I am not really interested in going that way, whether higher education should be paid or not; I am just pointing that people benefit without using it and that it is perhaps more useful to discuss if we as a society "earn" more than we loose collectively or individually.

It just seems utterly stupid to penalize people for succeeding through education by slapping them with an "post-education tax". After all, as pointed out above, people who succeed already pay a higher percentage of taxes. If SDP or whoever thinks that some degree/higher education students should pay for their education payment should be made upfront, not as a punishement for standing out. But I suppose that threating "free high education" would kind of be a right wing idea.

[catchmeifucan]

Any idea, about foreigners who have not come out of the Finnish education system? Say Foreigner X works and pays taxes but, has has not studied in Finland.
Will they, also have to pay this extra tax in ca se this law is approved?

[Upphew]

- the healthcare isn't fantastic either - one friend had bacl problem and went to terveyskeskus where they were told that ther was no chance of being referred to a specialist unless it meant that they couldn't walk.

What a wimp! In Finland we have this thing called sisu! No wonder so much money is poured to healthcare, when people whine about little back pain... probably was fishing for "saikku"! When one needs day or two off from work, it is always back pain or stomach flu.

Hmh, better put here or someone thinks I'm serious...

[Mook]

- the healthcare isn't fantastic either - one friend had bacl problem and went to terveyskeskus where they were told that ther was no chance of being referred to a specialist unless it meant that they couldn't walk.

What a wimp! In Finland we have this thing called sisu! No wonder so much money is poured to healthcare, when people whine about little back pain... probably was fishing for "saikku"! When one needs day or two off from work, it is always back pain or stomach flu.

Hmh, better put here or someone thinks I'm serious...

It was Scoliosis... you miserable c*nt

[r3ddr]

don't bother with graduation papers, just tax the IQ levels

anyway, lots of people lose money due to stupidity (tax), lets have the smart guys pay as well

[littlefrank]

Taxing graduates is hardly taxing intelligence...