Olympic closing ceremony....

[sammy]

King Crimson "Slow, grinding riffs, heavily distorted guitar, anguished and doomy lyrics" - Nah, just weak, hippie crap with some free form Jazz at the end, that's why I would put Sabbath over that...but that's just me.

Fair enough, but IMO Sabbath would kack their pants if they'd attempt anything as evil-sounding as Crimso at their darkest (Fracture from 'Starless and Bible Black" for example)... not to mention the fact that they couldn't play that, even if they wished

Btw did you know that the "hippie crap" above (21st Centruty Schizoid Man) was lovingly covered by the Swedish death metallers Entombed on their Family Favourites EP? Only even they could not negotiate their way through the fast unisono part after the 'jazzy' middle section. Go figure. But it's interesting to know some history beyond the cave-man riffs.

Speaking of which... Bartók and Stravinsky dabbled with the kind of atonal, chugging and angular riffing, tritones and all, that characterize 'modern heavy metal'... almost a century ago... although obviously they did not have electric guitars. You can't find many examples on youtube (thank god!) but here's just some to whet the appetite. Or not, but anyway

[antarctica_moon]

The UK should have had them:

[Johnny_Peebucks]

Well...That's why our argument is all a bit pointless really...everything comes from somewhere, it's impossible to put start/stop points on such things.

You can hear that riffing all through classical music, kinda does make me ask "what if..." But for dark lyrics...good old traditional murder ballards.

Moon - you really are into your ladies aren't you?

[MagicJ]

Moon - you really are into your ladies aren't you?

L to R: Bloke, Pre-teen, Spinster, Alien, Nightmare.



Although, pre-teen, i definitely would as long as the cops don't find out.

[otyikondo]

Well...That's why our argument is all a bit pointless really...everything comes from somewhere, it's impossible to put start/stop points on such things.

You can hear that riffing all through classical music, kinda does make me ask "what if..." But for dark lyrics...good old traditional murder ballards.

And of course, since everything comes around again and "good old traditional murder ballads" have been invoked, stand up Your Bobness, iconic shaper of late 20th century kulchur and inveterate nicker of other people's ideas without crediting them.

"O WHERE ha you been, Lord Randal, my son?
And where ha you been, my handsome young man?"
"I ha been at the greenwood; mother, mak my bed soon,
For I'm wearied wi hunting, and fain wad lie down."

etc, etc.

He certainly didn't let the grass grow under his feet on those early visits to England. Went home with a plastic bag-full of material from Child and others.

[Johnny_Peebucks]

I dunno about tampering with traditional songs, I have mixed feelings...But not crediting, that's anothr story.

Dylan's version of 'Little Sadie' springs to mind...where he changed the odd lyric to 'fit in and sound better'...the fool, to who's ears?

[otyikondo]

I dunno about tampering with traditional songs, I have mixed feelings...But not crediting, that's anothr story.

Dylan's version of 'Little Sadie' springs to mind...where he changed the odd lyric to 'fit in and sound better'...the fool, to who's ears?

Hmm... I thought he changed it BACK to the Clarence Ashley "original" - if you mean the 'Jericho/Juarez' line. It was Johnny Cash who'd mucked about with it. Or was there something else changed in there? Can't say as I've listened to Self Portrait in a while, but I'll dig it out and listen to both versions on there.

[Johnny_Peebucks]

NUTS!

[Johnny_Peebucks]

argh! Can't find it...The version on youtube is the same (lyrically). There is an analysisisisis of it somewhere on the t'interweb but nothing comes up...But I have no idea how many versions Dylan did besides the 2 on Self Portrait.

But I did find an accurate tab of it (Watson's melody version) - finally after looking for a decent version for 2 years

Oh -the second chorus is missing in Dylan's version...As it is in Ashleys..Older versions (obviously not recorded) and Watsons have:

2. I woke next morning at half-a past nine,
The buggies and hacks all formed in line
The gents and gamblers a-standing around
Goin' to take little Sadie to her burying ground.

To be honest listening to about 4/5 versions there's slight variations in all. "ringing my/a bell" or "reading the bill" in some versions.

"If you've got any papers will you serve them to me?"" is sometimes "If you've got any papers will you read them to me?"

The last verse also has numerous variants.

[otyikondo]

argh! Can't find it...The version on youtube is the same (lyrically). There is an analysisisisis of it somewhere on the t'interweb but nothing comes up...But I have no idea how many versions Dylan did besides the 2 on Self Portrait.

But I did find an accurate tab of it (Watson's melody version) - finally after looking for a decent version for 2 years

Oh -the second chorus is missing in Dylan's version...As it is in Ashleys..Older versions (obviously not recorded) and Watsons have:

2. I woke next morning at half-a past nine,
The buggies and hacks all formed in line
The gents and gamblers a-standing around
Goin' to take little Sadie to her burying ground.

To be honest listening to about 4/5 versions there's slight variations in all. "ringing my/a bell" or "reading the bill" in some versions.

"If you've got any papers will you serve them to me?"" is sometimes "If you've got any papers will you read them to me?"

The last verse also has numerous variants.

If he were recording it now, I'd put it down to loss of memory between takes (he's forever flubbing lines these days), but I suppose that won't wash all those years ago. Mind you, he wasn't averse to mucking about with his own lyrics at short notice: viz. the Desolation Row outtake on the Hwy61 sessions with "Feeding Casanova the boiled guts of birds" (Take 1) vs. "Feeding Casanova to get him to feel more assured" (Take whatever, was used). Did someone actually have the balls to say: "Look Bob, poetry schmoetry, you just can't use that line in there, it's revolting!"

Oh and I discovered that quite a lot of those 'last verse' ones have "pimps" for "gents" - hinting at a whole different meaning to Sadie's day-job.

e.g.

"I got up next morning, ‘bout half past nine
The coaches and the buggies all waiting in line
The pimps and the gamblers, standing around
They’re gonna carry little Sadie to her burying ground"

http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/old-t ... ongs-L.htm

Someone with MUCH too much time on their hands has analysed it all here.

This Olympics thread is now well and truly derailed. Job done.

[Johnny_Peebucks]

This Olympics thread is now well and truly derailed. Job done.

That was my soul intention.

Yeah - Little Sadie was all about a whore to me...I'm guessing that the Bill Lee/Lee Brown was a 'john' who couldn't stand seeing his girl with other clients. But that first line about 'making my rounds' kinda indicates to me that he was a pimp himself but that's just my interpretation...

[antarctica_moon]

Good grief, she's beautiful. Who is she?

[MagicJ]

Good grief, she's beautiful. Who is she?

Baby Spice, although she's a little pixie so i imagine they've used artistic licence *coughs* photoshop on her legs.

Much more attractive than a cheerleader wouldn't you say?

[onkko]

hope not this much

[simon]

Slightly off topic but this place has interesting pictures of the new Olympic venues.

Such as the new Multi Sport Arena Site