Broadcast jobs wanted

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dave071061
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Re: Broadcast jobs wanted

Post by dave071061 » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:39 pm

finlandforumuser wrote:

Nowadays, after almost decade in Finland, I earned enough. I could promote, basically, any person. I could make such favor for my former school mates, colleagues, etc. Well, I would not do it, unless I'm sure in his skills. Moreover, if I would need judgement on person where one is my friend in mind and another is just man from street, my verdict will be based only on personalities and how much he or she can contribute to my company, but not on relation. This is valid for most people whom I know: face-2-face interview, CV, recommendations tell much more than connection.

Such hiring practice applies for most of modern and developed companies.. Look how Microsoft hires. Person submits his CV, then he goes via filter of scening, phone interview and if he shows good skills then he is called to series of interviews with prospective team. Normally, this is on site job interview. The offer depends only of result of how well candidate performed. Having connection might speed up a bit the process of getting into the interview, but won't change anything conceptually.
Based on your previous postings I had assumed that you worked for Nokia, But I was obviously wrong from what you have posted above :D
I agree with all you said above about screening interviews etc, however, the bottom line is if you have 2 people with the same qualifications, 1 who you have known for maybe several years and have been socializing with, and another who you have spent a couple of hours with during the interviews, all of which have been in an office environment, Who do you know better? Are you really going to take the risk that the guy you don’t know could turn out to be a lazy git, a drunk or worse? Or will you take the guy you know well and know is a good worker?

And I'll be honest with you, I currently have 9 high level technical positions to fill, Am I going to advertise them on MOL? Nope, First I will look internally to see if there are any internal candidates for the jobs, Then if not I will look at my contacts to see if anyone I know well or have worked with before would be suitable, then as a last resort I will advertise the position, and it certainly won't be on MOL but on a commercial site such as Monster.

And of the 9 vacancies 2 have been filled internally, with 2 more likely to be filled the same way, 1 has been filled by someone I worked with in the past and another 2 will be filled the same way, I have advertised 1 SAP position and have 1 more position that will more than likely be advertised.



Re: Broadcast jobs wanted

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rinso
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Re: Broadcast jobs wanted

Post by rinso » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:28 pm

I have advertised 1 SAP position and have 1 more position that will more than likely be advertised.
Not knowing about those other 7 positions, these 2 will become the example that all jobs goes through advertising.
And this is not typical for Finland. It works this way everywhere.

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Pursuivant
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Re: Broadcast jobs wanted

Post by Pursuivant » Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:13 pm

ah, the database hiccuping again... lets see now
dave071061 wrote:Based on your previous postings I had assumed that you worked for Nokia, But I was obviously wrong from what you have posted above. I agree with all you said above about screening interviews etc, however, the bottom line is if you have 2 people with the same qualifications, 1 who you have known for maybe several years and have been socializing with, and another who you have spent a couple of hours with during the interviews, all of which have been in an office environment, Who do you know better? Are you really going to take the risk that the guy you don’t know could turn out to be a lazy git, a drunk or worse? Or will you take the guy you know well and know is a good worker?

And I'll be honest with you, I currently have 9 high level technical positions to fill, Am I going to advertise them on MOL? Nope, First I will look internally to see if there are any internal candidates for the jobs, Then if not I will look at my contacts to see if anyone I know well or have worked with before would be suitable, then as a last resort I will advertise the position, and it certainly won't be on MOL but on a commercial site such as Monster.

And of the 9 vacancies 2 have been filled internally, with 2 more likely to be filled the same way, 1 has been filled by someone I worked with in the past and another 2 will be filled the same way, I have advertised 1 SAP position and have 1 more position that will more than likely be advertised.
to which I would add - the "safety factor" in that Who do you know better? Are you really going to take the risk that the guy you don’t know could turn out to be a lazy git, a drunk or worse? Or will you take the guy you know well and know is a good worker? or will you hire the person you know as you know his qualities as a git and being a lazy drunk - but you know he is able to do the job and the option could be much worse. ;)
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

finlandforumuser
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Re: Broadcast jobs wanted

Post by finlandforumuser » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:30 pm

Pursuivant wrote:the IT is one of the few ones that has internationalized
Honestly, I don't mind about non-IT works. It is problem of people who selected they domain.

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Pursuivant
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Re: Broadcast jobs wanted

Post by Pursuivant » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:53 pm

finlandforumuser wrote:Honestly, I don't mind about non-IT works. It is problem of people who selected they domain.
yes well I don't care if the light shines out of your arse either
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

finlandforumuser
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Re: Broadcast jobs wanted

Post by finlandforumuser » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:05 pm

kay30 wrote: Yes, but, (and if I have done the math right) that would mean you came to Finland roughly between 1998-2000 with an MA in Computer Science right at the height of the internet boom.
Nowadays (at least up until now), the IT job market situation is very strong as well.
kay30 wrote: Secondly, I don't dispute that people need to have the required skills to get any job BUT you can't seriously argue that two people, with roughly the same skill sets will have the same chance of getting hired
Just need to hardly work to be non-average. There are many options:
- participate at OSS projects, there are plenty of options (sourceforge, code.google.com)
- work at rentacoder.com
- start your own freeware or shareware project
- make the porfollio to show during job interview. It could be code snippets, artworks, written white-papers, etc. Something, which can impress an interviewer.

Build-up your CV, instead of waster the time on hobbies (like study the languge).
kay30 wrote: if one person knows someone at the company and the other does not. Obviously, no one gets hired without any skills just because they know somebody.
Oh, really? The connection should be level CEO to be hired on such circumstances. If an average employee recommends somebody it has very little weight.

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Pursuivant
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Re: Broadcast jobs wanted

Post by Pursuivant » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:10 pm

finlandforumuser wrote: If an average employee recommends somebody it has very little weight.
yeah, well, we just hired two people who were "somebodys mate" ... but then again we're supposedly the asiantuntijaorganisaatio
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

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Pursuivant
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Re: Broadcast jobs wanted

Post by Pursuivant » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:12 pm

finlandforumuser wrote:Something, which can impress an interviewer.
never thought giving him the time of day would help?`if I was hiring, I'd hire a team player - not some self-serving egomaniac who not only cannot speak with his mates - but won't.
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

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RSim
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Re: Broadcast jobs wanted

Post by RSim » Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:48 pm

It's a shame threads like this always end up with people arguing on here.
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Pursuivant
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Re: Broadcast jobs wanted

Post by Pursuivant » Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:57 pm

so what do you expect from threads like this? a job to jump out of the bushes and bite you in the nose?
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

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raamv
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Re: Broadcast jobs wanted

Post by raamv » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:19 pm

RSim wrote:It's a shame threads like this always end up with people arguing on here.
Well,
The poster who started arguing with things like " you don't need Finnish in Finland" actually poured fuel on the fire.
There are many people getting along without Finnish in Finland. But that doesn't mean that Everyone can.
Most of those many reside in the comfort zone of the capital area. Most of them are also in IT/Telecom/computer related or management related jobs.
Its been said many 10000 times before..The more niche the job or higher up in the management, then possibly less Finnish is needed.
Moreover, A person planning to reside long-term will enjoy many benefits if they learn the language as opposed to enjoying the comfort of speaking in English just cos Most Finns are fluent in English.
ITS a shame that a person wanting to live here doesn't go out of their comfort zone but expect the comfort zone to fit them when they need it.
Arguments like Finland needs immigrants etc are moot point for a foreigner not to learn Finnish.
At the end of the Day/year/decade, If you are not fluent in the language/culture of the Country that you live in, then expect a different treatment than the locals.

When new-comers come and ask, there any many who give this advice sincerely for the benefit of the newcomer and then comes a troll who starts arguing against!!
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Pursuivant
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Re: Broadcast jobs wanted

Post by Pursuivant » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:19 am

raamv wrote:there any many who give this advice sincerely for the benefit of the newcomer
but usually its not what they want to hear
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

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RSim
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Re: Broadcast jobs wanted

Post by RSim » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:43 am

raamv wrote:
RSim wrote:It's a shame threads like this always end up with people arguing on here.
Well,
The poster who started arguing with things like " you don't need Finnish in Finland" actually poured fuel on the fire.
There are many people getting along without Finnish in Finland. But that doesn't mean that Everyone can.
Most of those many reside in the comfort zone of the capital area. Most of them are also in IT/Telecom/computer related or management related jobs.
Its been said many 10000 times before..The more niche the job or higher up in the management, then possibly less Finnish is needed.
Moreover, A person planning to reside long-term will enjoy many benefits if they learn the language as opposed to enjoying the comfort of speaking in English just cos Most Finns are fluent in English.
ITS a shame that a person wanting to live here doesn't go out of their comfort zone but expect the comfort zone to fit them when they need it.
Arguments like Finland needs immigrants etc are moot point for a foreigner not to learn Finnish.
At the end of the Day/year/decade, If you are not fluent in the language/culture of the Country that you live in, then expect a different treatment than the locals.

When new-comers come and ask, there any many who give this advice sincerely for the benefit of the newcomer and then comes a troll who starts arguing against!!
Very well put across, and I agree with you completely.

I wasn't making a judgement about anyone here, just merely making a point that threads like these always descend into pages of argument.
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Pursuivant
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Re: Broadcast jobs wanted

Post by Pursuivant » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:49 am

"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

TampereOwl
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Re: Broadcast jobs wanted

Post by TampereOwl » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:32 pm

RSim wrote:It's a shame threads like this always end up with people arguing on here.
It is indeed.

I sent you a pm a while back, btw, have you had chance to think about it yet?


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