interior and product design

[dessi_tm]

"But as for finding work your best bet is to put yourself out there...From my experience it is extreamly hard to find a job without qualifications & not speaking the language. As has been discussed knowing someone is the best way of getting work... all my jobs back home have come from refferals.[/quote]"


Well...I would do that, but I don't know how and if I can do it here, me being a foreigner. If some of you can tell me something about opening a small business in Finland are welcome!
What do you mean with "qualifications"? because I said I've graduated Fine Arts and Design Faculty, so I have a bachelors degree. This degree is considered too short? It's necessary that I have 5 years of study? please answer me!

[Oberon]

I'm asking you and all the dark-minded posters here:

Do you think that you have a job because you are the best/exceptional in what you are doing? or because you are Finnish version of MIchael jackson (Mikko Jacksonen or so)?

Its Mikko Alatalo

"What makes you or your work so Unique that you can qualify to get a job pretty much with what you know? Otherwise, who do you know?" before you ask something think whether you can answer your questions yourself?"

It's true that Finland is not easy country for foreigner to find a job but come on, it's too much. Sounds silly to say it's impossible unless you are the best in your field or you are Jackson itself.

Finland is not easy country even for Finn if one doesn't know someone. I have my job not because what I know or am good at, but because who I know. Employing someone is big thing in Finland, and when I say big I mean expensive. Getting rid of unwanted employees used to be quite hard so employers tend to hire people they know: even if they don't get the best, they don't have to do all hiring process again.

Thanks for Alatalo,


This is an answer to all:

If someone doesn't know, I didn't see yet the country where employers are begging to go and work (reasonable salary included) .

My point on this forum was/is that you are darkening things even more than reality, and moreover often your replays are offensive and cynic. (really lazy to cite all of such comments here but look yourself).

When I posted here at first I had really bad answers like you won't find a job, "hot blond syndrome", go milk cows etc. but @#$%, I'm still here and living/studying and it's not that I'm lucky/exceptional/Jackson one and neither I have huge Finnish community. I see such attitude toward almost every "newcomer" here: hey I'm a designer... Answer: we don't care design, @#$% it. I'm an IT specialist.... Answer: we have more than enough IT specialists with degree and Finnish knowledge, go away.
Just read a bit critically and imagine yourself on their place and you'll see what I mean.

and

Just cos we ask questions like this, doesnt make it dark-minded.. its questions like this that the interviewer will the "Thinking" to ask yet say nothing..

You see, employer can think this question because it's his/her interest to hire as good employee as possible, but even considering this not often they ask such questions (or ask more politely) but the difference is that you are not employer yourself and the person you asking this is not your employee, so it's not your business.
If someone talks to you the same way you do, you won't be happy I'm sure.

[Pursuivant]

I didn't see yet the country where employers are begging to go and work

so why is the USA building a wall on their southern border? to stop the coyotes?

I had really bad answers

so you just want to hear praise that the light shines out of your arse. well it does, I had to go get sunglasses

so it's not your business.

so whats the business of these people posting here asking things - unless they wish answers?

If someone talks to you the same way you do, you won't be happy I'm sure.

if you want to have answers that make you happy - go to demi.fi

[raamv]

My point on this forum was/is that you are darkening things even more than reality, and moreover often your replays are offensive and cynic. (really lazy to cite all of such comments here but look yourself).

The reality is pretty dark in here for people who come from outside expecting things to be as rosy as the places they come from..
So Dude Get REAL!!

When I posted here at first I had really bad answers like you won't find a job, "hot blond syndrome", go milk cows etc. but @#$%, I'm still here and living/studying and it's not that I'm lucky/exceptional/Jackson one and neither I have huge Finnish community. I see such attitude toward almost every "newcomer" here: hey I'm a designer... Answer: we don't care design, @#$% it. I'm an IT specialist.... Answer: we have more than enough IT specialists with degree and Finnish knowledge, go away.
Just read a bit critically and imagine yourself on their place and you'll see what I mean.
and

Just cos we ask questions like this, doesnt make it dark-minded.. its questions like this that the interviewer will the "Thinking" to ask yet say nothing..

Do you have a job? have you changed jobs? have you intended to apply for anything apart from what you are really qualified to do?
Have you tried it? have you succeeded?
If your answer to any of this is not yes, then you have not seen enough..and in case you are wondering, Its yes for all of these and more for me..

You see, employer can think this question because it's his/her interest to hire as good employee as possible, but even considering this not often they ask such questions (or ask more politely) but the difference is that you are not employer yourself and the person you asking this is not your employee, so it's not your business.
If someone talks to you the same way you do, you won't be happy I'm sure.

The employers' interest is to hire a Trustworthy person who can do More than the job description..
The difference is that I am trying to help the person understand the reality here..and you are not.. so its actually no more of a business of yours than mine..as you are trying to make sh*t look like a chocolate cake!!

[Tiwaz]

What do you mean with "qualifications"? because I said I've graduated Fine Arts and Design Faculty, so I have a bachelors degree. This degree is considered too short? It's necessary that I have 5 years of study? please answer me!

Issue with qualifications is...

Are they recognized as such in Finland? Even with EU having worked to create system of qualifications to be equal all over, it is not all that clear.

With Finnish qualifications, employer knows more or less what person knows.
With foreign qualifications, employer may not know. They can assume your papers come in your country along with cereal box.

Also, on some fields (not most likely yours though) Finland has different regulations, requiring immigrant to familiarize themselves with these before they can work.

[Oberon]

I didn't see yet the country where employers are begging to go and work

so why is the USA building a wall on their southern border? to stop the coyotes?

I had really bad answers

so you just want to hear praise that the light shines out of your arse. well it does, I had to go get sunglasses

so it's not your business.

so whats the business of these people posting here asking things - unless they wish answers?

If someone talks to you the same way you do, you won't be happy I'm sure.

if you want to have answers that make you happy - go to demi.fi

Depends on what level are we talking. USA is not building the wall to prevent migration of IT specialists/designers/...

Again, what a poetic answer, go and buy anti-hit sunglasses mate! you're playing with words now and it always means lack of arguments. You do know what I meant and I won't explain it again, even if you still don't understand it does not make sense to explain.

First, they are asking things friendly and politely, your answers are not the same.
Second, this comment was about particular post and I've explained everything there. It's wrong generalization, so don't make argument-loops.

Go to demi.fi yourself and make yourself happy, probably your replies would be more neutral and polite.

[Oberon]

My point on this forum was/is that you are darkening things even more than reality, and moreover often your replays are offensive and cynic. (really lazy to cite all of such comments here but look yourself).

The reality is pretty dark in here for people who come from outside expecting things to be as rosy as the places they come from..
So Dude Get REAL!!

As I see you don't want to understand the main thing here. You answered only first part but does it necessary to use cynicism, offense to make them see finland?.
One example. You want to play in a band, enter the bands website and there is a forum. You post that you would like to play in a band. Actually band is full and they don't need a new member.

There are several possible answer to reply your post there.

Sorry dude, at the moment we have all the members.

We don't need any new member and won't need.

You are nothing, all the members here have degree from Sibelius academy and speak finnish, who are you, r u @#$% Michael Jackson? you'll never get a place in a band, what did you expected, rosy place here? Go away from here and never come back.....

So you get the point, if not then go and read ethics for dummies.

[Pursuivant]

First, they are asking things friendly and politely, your answers are not the same.

asking things indeed

[Pursuivant]

does it necessary to use cynicism, offense to make them see finland?

yes, ethics for dummies - people move here because they "think" - they have no idea of the reality. their lifestyle expectations and skills to the expectations of what the employers expect and provide. say like if you expect to come and live in a house with a garden and have the mrs, home watching the kids and have 2 cars… then the cheap houses are in the boondocks where the mrs. creates cabin fever as there is nothing around and the master engineer with experience finds himself starting at half the salary he made “somewhere else”…. can happen to anyone. and as the expectations shatter then starts the “finding of faults” when the real problem is that the lifestyle expectations were not realistic. and instead of looking into the mirror and saying "I am stupid" it hurts the ego and they start whining. this is what happens with "highly educated professionals" - in Finland, Sweden and Canada all over - just go read http://www.thelocal.se/discussion and http://www.notcanada.com

see now when the light shines out of your arse...
WARNING TO ALL...Don't move to Sweden!
I came here with the starry wide-eyed dreams of a happy life with my Swedish hsuband.
Boy was I wrong....

This is coming from a college graduate, well-spoken attractive, blonde American woman who has found herself discriminated against in every potential job avenue.

I can't even IMAGINE if I wasn't a blonde American...Sweden is a political facade, making themselves out to be so open and tolerant of the rest of the world....but it is just that ...AN ILLUSION...once you get here, it is a TOTALLY different story...

I hope this post will save one person's life. I wish I would have found a post like mine before I came here...
..DON'T MOVE HERE...unless..
a) you are rich and can afford not to work
b) Have someone who will support you fully when you get here (but that can't last too long, since it will ruin your relationship as it has happened to me)
c) You already got a job from your home country.
d) You are a highly trained professional, as in a doctor or therapist who plans to open their own business

If you do not fall into one of these three categories then DON'T MOVE HERE....you will find yourself in a miserable situation otherwise...
It is not worth losing your life and self esteem over....The truth is withouth a job...SWEDEN SUCKS.


or do you want a handout when the door slams your arse on the way out and breaks the bulb?
Class action against the goverment

The solution : class action against the goverment. A colective lawsuit to demand compensation for demages to immigrants.

Skilled immigrants demand compensation : http://www.canadaimmigrants.com

The Canadian government persists in giving away millions of dollars to bureaucrats, subcontractors, and “non-profit” agencies that have only done one thing right; being government-friendly beneficiaries of this lavish cronyism.

The government’s lack of leadership is solved by keeping its thick bureaucracy happy - just to lessen the public outcry. And of course, by being nice to their close friends who plunder the treasury, declare bankruptcy, or otherwise benefit from rich government contracts that pay well.

But in terms of immigration policy, taxation and the economy, who pays for this lack of vision? The ones who bring billions of dollars, not only in cash, but also in skills to Canada; independent/skilled immigrants. The government is directly responsible of this multibillion dollar fiasco, and so it has to be accountable for the de-skilling process and decapitalization that each foreign professional suffers as soon as he arrives here.

Just think about it for a second… Aren’t skilled/independent immigrants entitled to be retroactively compensated for this mismanagement? For example, if you (as a family doctor) had worked in your field of expertise, you would have made x amount of money every year, wouldn’t you? But because you were working as a taxi driver, caregiver, or something similar, your income was significatively lower. And for the "privilege" of working in a Brown Collar Ghetto, you get to pay taxes, GST, PST, health care premiums etc. Just like the well off Canadians do here in Canada; except they can afford it, you can't.

At the same time the rest of your hard earned money has been feeding the Canadian economy because you buy products and services in the Canadian market and that creates directly and indirectly jobs for Canadians. How many job counsellors, landlords, business owners, and political parties have benefited from immigrants? And what do we get in return?

Nothing.

We have to live in “bad” neighborhoods, not because we want to be in the midst of drug dealers, crowded, stinky, cockroach infested buildings, greasy spoon restaurants, liquor stores, pawn and pot shops, but because we can’t afford a house in a “good” neighborhood where many “Canadian professionals” live, where one can see trees, flowers, rivers instead.

Yes, we live in impoverished neighborhoods where we are condemned to remain silent, surrounded by marginalized Canadians with whom you can only talk about the weather because they never finished even basic schooling, or because they are on drugs, or simply for your own safety.

Maybe living in “good” neighborhoods doesn’t mean we are going to have interesting conversations with Canadian professionals, but at least we will have the chance to invite some educated people from other countries and guarantee them a minimum level of public safety.

Even the basics of food, and clothing are limited by our meager incomes. We have to buy our clothes in second hand stores or out of season, when they are on sale. We have to eat lots of industrialized food because the “organic” one is way more expensive. Look at who shops in fancy boutique grocery stores in trendy areas. Then look at who goes to the big box discount stores.

Many of the basic services are out of our reach: dentists, cars, car insurance, family vacations, cultural events, professional treatment by a family physician, good education for our kids.

Most of our kids go to schools where the grade 8 English teacher will be the Grade 9, 10, 11 English teacher. That same teacher will also teach Physical Education, give counseling, and if needed he teaches Social Studies too. Oh, don't forget how low the Canadian childcare services were rated by the OECD in 2004, nor how expensive postsecondary education is.

As you may see, we are paying way too much for the standard of living that this “strong” economy is giving us in return. And you know why? We, as foreign and visible minority professionals, along with our kids, have been marginalized from the mainstream society while this country shamelessly wastes our resources and compromises our kids’ future.

Therefore, if you think you deserve to be compensated for all the time you were unemployed or underemployed in Canada; we invite you to sign this letter by sending us a message with your name, surname, email address, profession, the province where you live in, and write "Professional Compensation" at the beginning of your message.

P.S. To all skilled immigrants who are about to leave this country, or those who have already left: You should be compensated too. Don't leave this country quietly and empty handed.

Sincerely,

Canada Immigrant Job Issues
PS Labour discrimination is not only arousing righteous indignation, but it's also boosting the number of skilled immigrants looking for compensation.

[Pursuivant]

anyone feeling people staring at you - just replace "Sweden" or "Canada" with "Finland" in almost any posting on the websites and you get a perfect whine you can bitch & moan about Finland without having to invent anything new. this public service has been sponsored by the International Conference of Whining Expats. our motto is "nothing is like at home"

[Upphew]

What do you mean with "qualifications"? because I said I've graduated Fine Arts and Design Faculty, so I have a bachelors degree. This degree is considered too short? It's necessary that I have 5 years of study? please answer me!

It's again who you know. Employer most likely knows someone who has degree X from Y in Finland, not so about foreign degrees and schools. But I would say that this "rule" about degrees is not so hard for artsy degrees and schools, your portfolio will tell more than your degree. But to get that portfolio you must first...

[dessi_tm]

What do you mean with "qualifications"? because I said I've graduated Fine Arts and Design Faculty, so I have a bachelors degree. This degree is considered too short? It's necessary that I have 5 years of study? please answer me!

It's again who you know. Employer most likely knows someone who has degree X from Y in Finland, not so about foreign degrees and schools. But I would say that this "rule" about degrees is not so hard for artsy degrees and schools, your portfolio will tell more than your degree. But to get that portfolio you must first...

I must what?

[dessi_tm]

anyone feeling people staring at you - just replace "Sweden" or "Canada" with "Finland" in almost any posting on the websites and you get a perfect whine you can bitch & moan about Finland without having to invent anything new. this public service has been sponsored by the International Conference of Whining Expats. our motto is "nothing is like at home"

I know what you are talking about!
I can say that even in my country I started all over again for 3 times, and every time was hard to for me to find my place there. When I decided to stay here, I was very conscious about the whole precess, and that it wouldn't be easy at all! This is the risk that I had to assume.
And yes, I've noticed that many people from here are staring at me, and I really don't know why?! I'm not that different!
Anyway, I still have my patience and my hopes! hope I'll have them for a log time.....

[Tiwaz]

I must what?

Well, what should portfolio of person in your area of expertise contain?

Presumably some kind of samples from your work. At which point we come to the point if your work fits in Finnish interior design field.

If it doesn't, then you would need to do some design jobs which are done in Finnish friendly style, but to get jobs you would need portfolio. But to make portfolio you need jobs.

[Oberon]

You know that it is meaningless... to post unsuccessful stories of American blondes in Sweden. Sorry, I didn't read the whole story. But I can search and post successful stories and it will turn out a race between you and me - who finds more. You guys are trying to prove how hard is living/finding job in Finland, but just to remind, I'm not arguing about "rosyness" of job opportunities here.

I'm saying lastly, read the simple example about the band above and if you want you'll get my position (you're not so stupid I suppose), I think first and second answers in the example are normal and last one is impolite and offensive without any reason. That's all.