Here we go again..another school shooting

[mrjimsfc]

And i agree on that, if you know right people you can get a gun. I could make few calls and get 9mm pistol and ammo from people who dont ask for permit.

Well in Britian, I couldn't. Which perhaps illustrates the point that when there are lots of guns, accessibility is easier when than when there are less guns. Even you should be able to do the maths.

And how that "no guns" is possible? And no, Limiting gun ownership doesnt make country safer.

Not limiting gun ownership... banning it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7118332.stm

Practically "no guns" isn't possible, not whilst people like you want to cling onto the "right" to have guns. Otherwise it's quite simple.

Actually, in Britan yes, you could. Of course there are societies where there are no guns at all in the resident population. You call them prisons. Do murders still occur in prisons? How? There are no guns there. One can't buy a knife there either because they are totaly banned. Even with total people control (a politicians wet dream) you can't have a utopian life style.

[Pursuivant]

all I can say Stubb is going to sit and take kalsarikännit with Ollila when they think about the Finnish national brand - that is, the image, or reputation of the country....

[Pursuivant]

A nerdy looking young man with bad hair-do and no fashion sense. I can imagine that he has never had a girlfriend. All he would have needed is a girlfriend. "Nobody loves me" is a bad state of mind if it goes on for a long time.

oh, lets just blame it all on the Finnish Women... they have too high expectations... should get t-shirts "boink a nerd or he'll get a .22"

[starviego]

Here is the profile of the latest "Columbine-Client":

--Friends may notice strange changes in mood in the days and weeks before the shooting. He may have complained that lately he has experienced strange and vivid dreams of a violent nature.

--He will be dressed in all black and/or camoflage, oftentimes with a black trenchcoat.

--Eyewitnesses at the scene will note strange mood changes during the shooting. Some will say he looked angry, others will say he looked anxious, confused, or 'like a robot.'

--The media will paint him as a loner, but he will in fact have a circle of friends or be part of a clique.

--Extra ammo/guns/bombs will be found at his home and in his auto(this to 'close the circle' of guilt in the public's mind). The guns will have been legally acquired by the shooter or a close relative/neighbor. He will have brought an excessive quantity of ammunition to the scene. (This is so that, if he has 200rounds of ammo, people will think "Wow, he must have wanted to kill 200 people. What a nut!")

--Literature and/or videos about Adolph Hitler, Charles Manson(infamous American cult leader), or the Columbine killers will be found amongst his possessions.

--He will be computer-savvy, and likely left an online presence. He may have left some kind of manifesto, though it will be incomprehensible/nonsensical for the most part. He will have hinted at what he had planned, but the name of the target itself will not be mentioned. A complete record of what he communicated, and with who, on his computer will NOT be released.

--He will probably have been a player of violent video games, and will have been a fan of violence-themed movies. He will have produced his own videos in which he is seen with his weapons or expressing his hatred and/or violence.

--He will have a strong interest in weapons--guns, knives, swords, bombs--or the military. Or he will have spent some time in the military before being seperated under murky circumstances.

--There is a good chance he will have been active in "Live Action Role Playing"(LARP) games. Especially one called "Vampire, the Masquerade." Or he will have been a player in "Airsoft"/paintball games.

--He will have been mentally "treated" at some point by a counselor, psychologist, or a psychiatrist. And this shrink will likely remain unidentified and will NEVER be interviewed, even though he is perhaps best positioned to tell us what the motive is. The shooter may also may have taken "anger management" sessions.

--He will have a history of taking SSRIs(selective seritonin reuptake inhibitors), often in combination with Ritalin(methylphenidate).

--There is some likelihood that he was institutionalized or hospitalized at some point before the attack. At any rate there will gaps in the timeline where police cannot account for his whereabouts before the attack.

--He probably had some contact with the police/law enforcement before the shooting.

--He might have been involved with Satanism or other strange occultic-type religions.

--If he survived the assault, he will be unable to explain why he did what he did. He may claim that 'voices' in his head told him to do it. Or he may not even remember the act at all. But whether the shooter lives or dies, motive will always remain a mystery.

--He will NOT have acted alone. There is a good possibility others were shooting also; or at the very least others will have encouraged him and helped plan the attack and get weapons.

--Afterwards, the politicians will call for increased laws against gun ownership, more armed security personnel everywhere, and metal detectors at the school/mall.

[Pursuivant]

good old Fred Phelps is at it again

[Karhunkoski]

I could make few calls and get 9mm pistol and ammo from people who dont ask for permit.

Does anyone know if the weapon used was the .22 pistol he had recently acquired (legally)?

(Reason being that I just read a report that talked about "automatic fire", which could suggest a more powerful, non-registered weapon)

Police Let Shooter Keep Gun
Published 23.09.2008, 17.35

Police questioned suspected Kauhajoki gunman Matti Saari on Monday because of violent videos he had posted on the website YouTube, showing himself shooting a gun at a firing range. However no further action was taken.


According to National Police Commissioner Mikko Paatero, the man did not apparently directly threaten anyone so there were no grounds for further steps.

Police first received information about the videos on Friday, but could not reach the man until Monday. He was then questioned about the videos. Police apparently also searched his home.

Saari had received a temporary permit in August for a .22 calibre handgun, his first gun.

However the chief inspector in charge of case decided that there were no grounds for suspending the gun license or confiscating the weapon. Paatero and Interior Minister Anne Holmlund have promised a thorough investigation of the case.

"One would imagine that the gun or the license were not taken away because he did not threaten anyone in the internet video," Paatero told YLE.

YLE

Yup, I read that link earlier, thanks. But is that definitely the weapon used ("Automatic Fire" does not equal ".22 pistol", at least in my experience of firearms)

[raamv]

Yup, I read that link earlier, thanks. But is that definitely the weapon used ("Automatic Fire" does not equal ".22 pistol", at least in my experience of firearms)

didnt see this being mentioned in the news or websites? Any links?

[Pursuivant]

But is that definitely the weapon used ("Automatic Fire" does not equal ".22 pistol", at least in my experience of firearms)

well it is "automatic" enough for a laymans eye used to bolt-action moose rifle

[Jukka Aho]

Yup, I read that link earlier, thanks. But is that definitely the weapon used ("Automatic Fire" does not equal ".22 pistol", at least in my experience of firearms)

didnt see this being mentioned in the news or websites? Any links?

Sarjatuli (“rapid fire”, “sustained fire”) was mentioned in the first reports, probably due to confused accounts by eyewitnesses (or other people who were in the area and heard the shots from afar):



See here as well. (That article is now gone from the IS site.)
 

[raamv]

Itlasanomat...and news dont go hand in hand.. mebbe sensational news that is the case here...not facts..like we know now..

[Pursuivant]

Here is the profile of the latest "Columbine-Client":

hmmmm... lets see now. I am after all a nerdy looking young(at heart) man with bad hair-do and no fashion sense. No girlfriend. "Nobody loves me" and a bad state of mind gone on for a long time....

- may have complained that lately he has experienced strange and vivid dreamsk
- oftentimes with a black trenchcoat.
- strange mood changes
- have a circle of friends or be part of a clique.
- Literature about Adolph Hitler, Charles Manson(infamous American cult leader)
- He will be computer-savvy, and likely left an online presence.
- He may have left some kind of manifesto, though it will be incomprehensible/nonsensical for the most part.
- will have been a fan of violence-themed movies
- Or he will have spent some time in the military before being seperated under murky circumstances.

darn... and now I'm going to be stuck with some nerds in a coding class for the next 6 months...and I've posted a picture of myself with a chainsaw... aaarrgghhhhhhhhh...

[llewellyn]

So sad. Something obviously has changed as we have had both schools and firearms in Finland for a very long time and this is only the second school massacre in our history. Many similar countries have none. The level and nature of crime does vary a lot in different social and cultural conditions and climates, so it is very necessary to try to analyze the causes of these tragedies. Prevention should be always the aim. Stating this does not in anyway lessen the individual responsibility though is is often the accusation whenever you try to have an intelligent debate on the issue.

[EP]

Code: Select all

 I am after all a nerdy looking young(at heart) man with bad hair-do and no fashion sense. No girlfriend. "Nobody loves me" and a bad state of mind gone on for a long time....

They are coming to get you ha haa.

[Jukka Aho]

Something obviously has changed as we have had both schools and firearms in Finland for a very long time and this is only the second school massacre in our history.

This one seems to be a copycat, trying to re-enact the Jokela case. The guy even looks nearly the same as the earlier perpetrator, uses the same Internet services to post his videos and pictures for others to see, is posing the same way in the photos, the victim count is almost the same, he took his own life the same way, he had an “Internet press kit” and left his “last words” message in his room just like Auvinen, the time of day when he started shooting was almost the same, etc.

[odon]

How about a debate on mental health services, depression, lack of communication skills and a culture that promotes alcohol abuse instead?

Not that I am pro-gun in any way, shape, or form, but the above seem to be HUGE issues here in Finland.