Liability for damaging a rental van

GharF · Post by **GharF** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:43 pm

2 weeks I moved houses for which i rented a van from Euro Rent. I made a small scratch on the side of the van for which they just send me the bill. It amounts to 1300 euro (1050 Euro Damage and 250 Euro loss of income) and they expect me to pay it within 7 days. My own risk for the insurance was 1900(!).

My questions are as follows:
- can they just pick the first repair place and charge me the bill they get from there?
- I'm not sure if they actually fixed it. Can I demand to see the car and what if they didn't actually fix it?
- can they charge me for any indirect costs ? (e.g. loss of income)
- Can they expect from me to pay within 7 days?

Your help is really appreciated.

Best Regards,
Johan Hamstra

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Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:13 pm

I guess the first step is to read the small print in the contract. If you signed the terms and conditions (and if those T&Cs state that you must pay compensation in 7 days bla bla) then there is probably not much you can do about it. I would guess that you are within your rights to view the repair.

Best place to get legal info is from the Consumer Ombudsman. Where do you live? There is one in Iso Omena Espoo and IIRC another on Haapaniementie (???) near the Tax Office in Hakaniemi.

Mook · Post by **Mook** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:34 pm

Demand evidence that it's been fixed (which is unlikely to have happened)

Amandine.K · Post by **Amandine.K** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:40 pm

Also did you sign anything stating you damaged the car when you returned it? If not how can they prove that it was you who damaged it and not somebody else...

We had a similar scenario in September. Rented a Kangoo in France, somebody scratched the whole side with a key (brilliant!). We would have had to pay 1300€ also to repair the damage. Eventually we went to see a garage who repainted the 2 doors and the back for 250€. We obviously didn't mention it when we got it back. But we could actually have given it back that way and they wouldn't have charged us as we gave the car back and the guy didn't even go to check it. He just said "I saw the car when you drove past the office and it is fine"...

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:01 pm

My own risk for the insurance was 1900(!).

sometimes its worth paying the extra for the lower liability

GharF · Post by **GharF** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:49 pm

Thanks for the comments. I already tried to call the Ombudsman in Helsinki but the line was busy all the time. I will try again in Espoo/Helsinki tomorrow.
I did actually own up to the damage on the phone...stupid me, but then again I did do the damage.
I will surely demand to see the van, because I don't believe either that they fixed it. They charged 5 days loss of income (does it take 5 days to fix such a thing???) and they also charged 75 Euro for bringing it to the repair place in Kerava (!) from Töölö.

Pursuivant wrote:sometimes its worth paying the extra for the lower liability

Yep it is. Bit of a useless comment at this stage, isn't it?

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:00 pm

Generally, when a paint or damage occurs, they need to show it at a autokatsatus, where they take pictures and assess the damage.
Ask them for the evidence of the pictures and the fix and then ask them to show proof for the cancellations or Booked meetings etc.
But your most important blunder is to accepting the mistake without seeing what it was and taking pictures of it.
See if your renter's insurance covers it

FinnBrit · Post by **FinnBrit** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:05 pm

GharF wrote:
Pursuivant wrote:sometimes its worth paying the extra for the lower liability
Yep it is. Bit of a useless comment at this stage, isn't it?

Yeah, but hindsight is twenty-twenty:)

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:09 pm

If you're responsible for the damage, you have to pay. Whether they fix it or not.
(if they don't fix it, the remaining value of the car is less)
You could however object to unreasonable costs (loss of income when they don't fix, repainting the whole side instead of repairing the scratch, etc) But you have to prove that their bill is unreasonable.

GharF · Post by **GharF** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:29 pm

raamv wrote:But your most important blunder is to accepting the mistake without seeing what it was and taking pictures of it.

The did provide a picture and of course I know what it looked like because I did it myself.

rinso wrote:if they don't fix it, the remaining value of the car is less.

Very true, but I think devaluation of a car is usually less then actually fixing it.

rinso wrote:But you have to prove that their bill is unreasonable.

hmm...how does one prove such a thing....

. But of course loss of income should be easy

if they didn't actually fix it

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:22 pm

GharF wrote: Yep it is. Bit of a useless comment at this stage, isn't it?

not for the next guy planning on renting a van

Rabs · Post by **Rabs** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:52 pm

GharF wrote:2 weeks I moved houses for which i rented a van from Euro Rent. I made a small scratch on the side of the van for which they just send me the bill. It amounts to 1300 euro (1050 Euro Damage and 250 Euro loss of income) and they expect me to pay it within 7 days. My own risk for the insurance was 1900(!).

My questions are as follows:
- can they just pick the first repair place and charge me the bill they get from there?
- I'm not sure if they actually fixed it. Can I demand to see the car and what if they didn't actually fix it?
- can they charge me for any indirect costs ? (e.g. loss of income)
- Can they expect from me to pay within 7 days?

Your help is really appreciated.

Best Regards,
Johan Hamstra

- who's gonna pay the driver who takes it to the repair place..... they will ask! (so it will be more than what bill is from repair place)
- if they didn't fix it, they cannot ask for loss of income... sheer illegal in my opinion
- at least they will claim for such costs e.g. loss of income as well as the driving to the repair center cost
- it must be clearly stated on the contract, if not, commerical law is followed

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:04 am

GharF wrote:
rinso wrote:But you have to prove that their bill is unreasonable.
hmm...how does one prove such a thing.... . But of course loss of income should be easy if they didn't actually fix it

With the pictures you can ask another company for a price estimate. If that differs significantly, they at least have to explain why (detailed calculation of the work). A third party (judge, consumers adviser?) can than decide about how reasonable the bill is.
It is a lot of trouble while the reduction of the claim probably will be limited. Most people don't bother and pay. (that is what those companies are hoping for, they can get away with it just because of all the rifraf

)

Tiwaz · Post by **Tiwaz** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:07 am

Trust me... Everything is down there somewhere in the contract. In all those lines of little text you never bothered to read.

Car rentals have had so much time that they have most definitely made sure they cover all their bases, specially bigger companies which I presume this was.

When I rented van for my move, I asked if there was extra pay for having someone besides me drive. Guy just told it was in the contract that I take full responsibility for whomever I permit to drive it.

raamv · Post by **raamv** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:49 am

That's why whenever I rent a car, I always, check the Damage report of the rental auto. It should be agreed with the rental company and if I even find a mini scratch, I report it to the person and make sure that they entered it into the scratch/damage report.
This way, you are also indicating for the next person ( who might or might not check it) that it was not my fault but someone previously who rented it..

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