Wired computer router

[JBRasmussen]

any one know where I can get a good deal on a wired router? I have had no luck. I would get a wireless one but I want to hook up my xbox 360 and xbox 360 wireless adaptors are outragous. Especially for some one on a student budget.

[Upphew]

You know that you don't have to use the wlan in wireless router?

[Mook]

It doesn't sound like you have much routing to do, shurely the thing you want is an ethernet hub, which might cost around 10 Euros. Saying that, for 40 Euros you can get a box with ADSL, WLAN and 4 ethernet ports...

[sinikala]

Can you put an Ethernet hub in series after a wireless router?

We have an electrical panel in the hall with an Ethernet in Socket (outside world ) and three Ethernet out sockets which are wired to differnt rooms, so three sockets in the wall, but I want to use 4 devices, specifically 2 in one room.

Present setup is

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . /--- Panel --- Bedroom --- PC1
Outside world---Panel --- WiFi Router --- Panel --- Living Room --- Slingbox or Internet Radio
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \--- Panel --- Dining Room --- PC2

I want to use the Slingbox and the Internet Radio at the same time, and in future it is likely that we will put a 3rd PC in the living room ... so would it work that a hub would sit between the router and the 2 (and later probably 3) living room devices?

Are there likely to be any problems with this?

Can anyone recommend a suitable bit of hardware?

[Mook]

Can you put an Ethernet hub in series after a wireless router?

We have an electrical panel in the hall with an Ethernet in Socket (outside world ) and three Ethernet out sockets which are wired to differnt rooms, so three sockets in the wall, but I want to use 4 devices, specifically 2 in one room.

Present setup is

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . /--- Panel --- Bedroom --- PC1
Outside world---Panel --- WiFi Router --- Panel --- Living Room --- Slingbox or Internet Radio
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \--- Panel --- Dining Room --- PC2

I want to use the Slingbox and the Internet Radio at the same time, and in future it is likely that we will put a 3rd PC in the living room ... so would it work that a hub would sit between the router and the 2 (and later probably 3) living room devices?

Are there likely to be any problems with this?

Can anyone recommend a suitable bit of hardware?

Jep, that works fine. you can chain as many hubs/routers/switches as you like.

[Upphew]

Jep, that works fine. you can chain as many hubs/routers/switches as you like.

Thats how the whole internet is made. Its jut a bunch (a very large one) of wires and cable and switches and routers and hubs and repeaters and servers and...

[sinikala]

Jep, that works fine. you can chain as many hubs/routers/switches as you like.

Thats how the whole internet is made. Its jut a bunch (a very large one) of wires and cable and switches and routers and hubs and repeaters and servers and...

Yes, but this is precisely my problem, I know what a wireless router is ... I've got one and it works very nicely. But I don't know if I need a switch / hub / repeater / another router?

I want, eventually to get three devices hard wired into one Ethernet plug in the wall... so that those three network devices can all run simultaneously off one LAN port of my wireless router. Won't the wireless router get confused? Does it have to talk to the hub somehow or are hubs smart enough to handle this?

I remember in the days you wanted to connect 2 PCs to the same printer, there were little boxes with a knob and A&B marked on the front to allow this. I hope that things have moved on ... so would prefer to buy the right piece of kit for the job, instead of an expensive doorstop.

[Mook]

Well,

a hub mirrors all ethernet traffic to all it's sockets/ports

a switch works out all the stuff that's connected to it's ports and directs traffic to the right place (using ARP)

a router decides which path traffic should take i.e. works out the shortest path to a certain IP address.
(I'm not entirely convinced that wireless routers are _proper_ routers)

Anyhow, any of these will do what you want, so the thing is to get the cheapest. e.g. http://www.verkkokauppa.com/popups/prodinfo.php?id=2609
I've also seen PC ethernet cards with built-in switches, which I guess would make things a bit neater.

[raamv]

any one know where I can get a good deal on a wired router? I have had no luck. I would get a wireless one but I want to hook up my xbox 360 and xbox 360 wireless adaptors are outragous. Especially for some one on a student budget.

Check this link..http://hintaseuranta.fi/tuote.aspx/26256
It starts from €13 and goes higher..

[network_engineer]

Hi!

JBRasmussen/sinikala: If you need performance, which undoubtedly you will, consider using a switch! Most of the Wireless Routers come with e.g. a 4-port switch, i.e. switching frames based on the MAC address of the hardware. You can also buy a normal layer 2 switch from most of the stores.

sinikala: Yes, it can be used the way you mentioned.

The word you should look for is kytkin (I found the 8-porttinen kytkin) at the link given above (hintaseura.fi).


- Hubs/Repeaters? Those are terms I haven't heard in a while at least not in terms of LAN devices.
- Internet made of "hubs and repeaters". While quite true in the figurative sense, still makes me No offence intended.

[Jukka Aho]

a hub mirrors all ethernet traffic to all it's sockets/ports

An Ethernet hub – or a “multi-port repeater” by another name – is an outdated concept... replaced by switches.

There haven’t really been true Ethernet hubs on the consumer market ever since the 100 Mbps Ethernet technology (100BaseTX) started getting more common than the 10 Mbps Ethernet (10BaseT)... so I’d just forget about the “hub” option altogether... given how the market for these devices has developed, it’s not really even an “option” any more. (I’m not even sure if they still make those plain old-fashioned hubs.)

a switch works out all the stuff that's connected to it's ports and directs traffic to the right place (using ARP)

Yep. An Ethernet switch differs from an Ethernet hub in that it doesn’t repeat all incoming packets to all ports, but just to the port that actually needs to see that traffic. So it’s a smarter, more efficient device than a hub, and helps avoiding needless congestion on the network... especially if there’s lots of Ethernet traffic on the different ports.

A switch is essentially a multi-port Ethernet bridge: a device that connects separate Ethernet network segments together and prevents the local traffic within each segment from needlessly “leaking” to the other segments.

Both switches and hubs function like multi-socket extension cords: with the help of such device, you can connect several devices to the network via a single Ethernet wall jack. It is just that the more efficient “switching” (multi-port bridging) technology has replaced the less efficient “hub” (multi-port repeater) technology for most applications today, so you’re much more likely to use a switch for this need today than a hub.

a router decides which path traffic should take i.e. works out the shortest path to a certain IP address.

More to the point: unlike switches and hubs – which only deal with Ethernet packets and MAC addressing – a router deals with IP addressing, and IP subnets. When you need to get your traffic from one IP subnet to the other, a properly configured router can connect those networks together and knows how to relay packets between them.

Since routers need to understand IP addressing, they are more sophisticated and more expensive devices than a hub or a switch, and – unlike hubs or switches – they also usually need some manual configuration. (A router needs to know which IP subnet lives behind which of its ports.)

Routers sold to homes or small offices – the so-called “Broadband” or “SOHO” routers – usually feature a built-in switch, and they may look much like a switch. Unlike a plain switch, though, they also have a separate “WAN” or “upstream” port, for connecting to an “upstream” IP subnet, which is assumed to use different IP addressing than the LAN ports.

IP subnetting and routing is usually only needed on larger networks. Ordinary homes can typically be configured as a single subnet using special IP addresses which are set aside for private use, as defined in the RFC 1918. Thus, a home network does not usually need routers (or several separate IP subnets) for the internal traffic, but a router is needed at the point where it connects to the Internet.

ADSL modems usually combine several different functions in a single box:

• an ADSL modem
• a router (either a plain router, or a NA(P)T router, or configurable as either)
• a firewall (these days typically with some application-level filtering support, too)
• a switch (with 4 to 8 Ethernet ports for the “LAN” side of the router)
• possibly, a wireless bridge (or even a separate routed IP subnet) for the wireless devices

(I'm not entirely convinced that wireless routers are _proper_ routers)

If it can relay (route) traffic from one IP subnet to the other, it is a “proper” router. If it can’t, but does allow seeing the wireless stations as if they were nodes directly connected to your wired LAN, it is merely a bridge.

In conclusion, what the OP needs is a bog-standard, cheap Ethernet switch, which he would connect to one of the LAN ports on his current broadband router or ADSL modem/router (or cable modem, or whatever – the OP didn’t really tell much about his current network configuration!). If he doesn’t need further IP subnetting in his local network, getting another router for the purpose would only needlessly complicate things – and it would cost more, too.

On the other hand, if the OP currently gets his Internet connection directly from the wall, or from a device that does not in itself offer any firewalling functionality, and if he has only been using a single PC and a software-based firewall this far, he might want to get a broadband/SOHO router, after all – for the firewall/NAT functionality, and the added protection it would provide... (although a mere switch would still do if no such protection is needed.) It’s difficult to say without knowing more about his current configuration.

[sinikala]

Anyhow, any of these will do what you want, so the thing is to get the cheapest. e.g. http://www.verkkokauppa.com/popups/prodinfo.php?id=2609
I've also seen PC ethernet cards with built-in switches, which I guess would make things a bit neater.

Cheers, it's that cheap that it's not a big hit if I buy one and it doesn't work.

Just having a check... our local store has this for €30 but if I take in a print out with me from the web which is cheaper they always match the price. I think I'll grab on on Saturday.

I bought my wireless router (Siemens) about 5 years ago. IIRC it was closer to €100... ok it was from Stockmann... still.

[Mook]

So we've established that you don't get hubs any more... so how am I going todo packet sniffing now? (on a small scale)

I know that large switches/routers can be configured to mirror all traffic to one port, but using a laptop and a hub is sometimes more practical.

[Jukka Aho]

So we've established that you don't get hubs any more... so how am I going todo packet sniffing now? (on a small scale)

Two words: ARP poisoning. :)

Or you could equip your laptop with two Ethernet interfaces, create a bridge between them, and insert your laptop in the middle of the wire you'd like to listen to.