Job offer taken back

aguinness · Post by **aguinness** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:00 pm

Long story and just wondering what peoples thoughts are as regards my rights, I have been unofficially doing some work for about a year, for an engineering company whose owner is the only employee. This resulted in a job offer with the long term plan being that the owner (also a foreigner) would retire in 5-10 years and I would take over the running of the company. Here is the wording of the job offer ( I have deleted the pay figures and company name)

Dear S.....n,

I confirm that you will be employed by A...... H...... S...... as Sales Manager starting 5th January 2009, with a probation period of 3 months. Your salary will be ..,000 Euros Gross and a yearly profit based bonus scheme will be introduced during the first quarter of 2009. Your pension, holiday, sickness entitlement and Contract of Employment will be based on the Finnish standard.

That offer was made to me on 3.11.08. On 14.11.08 I gave my notice in my old job of over 9 years and finished working on 30.11.08 and have since quit my union membership.

Last Thursday while speaking to the new company owner he told me he can no longer afford to offer me that job due to a total stop in orders for the last 2 months and the only option he can see is for me to become self employed and work for his company for an hourly rate BUT only 2 days a week, I asked what will happen when things improve sales wise and he suggested I would continue self employed.Now obviously this is not what we agreed and will not pay my mortgage, I have read some on starting my own business and will visit T&E Keskus on Monday. So what would you do in this situation besides the few obvious answers of run away from this company, sue the bast&rd and go get your old job back. To sum it up here is what happened.
1. I got a job offer
2. I quit my old job
3. job offer has been retracted
4. I have no job and have lost 9 years of service i.e holidays, sick leave etc.
5. I am not entitled to unemployment as I quit my job

So any word of wisdom?

**Sponsor:**

blaugrau · Post by **blaugrau** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:23 pm

Sorry to hear about this, sounds absolutely horrible. Have you contacted your union yet? I assume they would have experience with cases like that and are the ones that probably can help you best (after all, it's for getting support in situations like this that you're paying your union membership fee!!)

All the best and good luck!

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:41 pm

That sucks.
But you have to concentrate on getting your old job back.
Your vaporized new job does not exist any more. Even if you can force him to honour his offer, he'll fire you within those 3 months probation. That situation might slightly better (unemployment pay?) but it still is very bad.
You might sue him for damages, but that is a long process and far from sure.
Good luck.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:27 pm

one shouldn't trust anybody in the current economic situation....

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:28 pm

aguinness wrote: 1. I got a job offer
2. I quit my old job
3. job offer has been retracted
4. I have no job and have lost 9 years of service i.e holidays, sick leave etc.
5. I am not entitled to unemployment as I quit my job

So any word of wisdom?

thin long bread in mouth better than promises

Rabs · Post by **Rabs** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:30 pm

getting fired even before being properly hired???

well, personally I don't think you will get anything more than probation days even if you take it to court i.e. he will fire you anyway giving you a week's or two's prior notice or even less depending on the contract. but again... did he in any way persuade you to quit the old job?

aguinness · Post by **aguinness** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:19 pm

Yes, he encouraged me to give up my old job as working for him was supposed to be full time, but how would that matter?

Rabs · Post by **Rabs** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:30 pm

aguinness wrote:Yes, he encouraged me to give up my old job as working for him was supposed to be full time, but how would that matter?

just my opinion, if someone gives you false promise..... and make you act on certain things based on that false promise, then any damage caused to you this way becomes his liability also in some way. this can be used against him in court... just an opinion

onkko · Post by **onkko** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:04 pm

Rabs wrote:
aguinness wrote:Yes, he encouraged me to give up my old job as working for him was supposed to be full time, but how would that matter?
just my opinion, if someone gives you false promise..... and make you act on certain things based on that false promise, then any damage caused to you this way becomes his liability also in some way. this can be used against him in court... just an opinion

That could be

Petoksesta ja muusta epärehellisyydestä
1 § (24.8.1990/769)
Petos

Joka, hankkiakseen itselleen tai toiselle oikeudetonta taloudellista hyötyä taikka toista vahingoittaakseen, erehdyttämällä tai erehdystä hyväksi käyttämällä saa toisen tekemään tai jättämään tekemättä jotakin ja siten aiheuttaa taloudellista vahinkoa erehtyneelle tai sille, jonka eduista tällä on ollut mahdollisuus määrätä, on tuomittava petoksesta sakkoon tai vankeuteen enintään kahdeksi vuodeksi.

http://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannokset/1889/en18890039

Chapter 36 - Fraud and other dishonesty
Section 1 - Fraud (769/1990)
(1) A person who, in order to obtain unlawful financial benefit for himself/herself or
another or in order to harm another, deceives another or takes advantage of an
error of another so as to have this person do something or refrain from doing
something and in this way causes economic loss to the deceived person or to the
person over whose benefits this person is able to dispose, shall be sentenced for
fraud to a fine or to imprisonment for at most two years.

Problem is to prove that he knew that he couldnt give a job.
I would be asking my old job back.

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:45 am

Get a lawyer. Based on Onkko's reference and your information you might have a case against him.

That offer was made to me on 3.11.08.
Last Thursday (11.12.08)while speaking to the new company owner he told me he can no longer afford to offer me that job due to a total stop in orders for the last 2 months
I asked what will happen when things improve sales wise and he suggested I would continue self employed.
Yes, he encouraged me to give up my old job as working for him was supposed to be full time,

It looks like he manipulated you into a position where you had to accept anything he would be offering you.
That indeed has the feeling of fraud and intentionally creating damages.

aguinness · Post by **aguinness** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:28 pm

So what´s the difference whether it was intentional or not? What I mean is if you didn´t intend to cause any harm then you don´t have to honour what you said?

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:35 pm

yeah, its called "sh*t happens"... basically he can hire you and fire you the same day, as thats according to "productional causes" that there is no work. or do you think the court believes that sh*t doesn't happen? to be malice there has to be deliberate intent... really a crap situation, but I don't see much of how it could be contained as criminal... honoring a contract is one thing - but the "productional causes" are the other... then again Rinso's right that apparently you got played in there - if he knew how the situation was going and still was offering you a full-time job. this "enterpreneurship" crap has been pulled so many times before its unbelievable...

sppuuddy · Post by **sppuuddy** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:12 pm

Your number one priority now should be to find employment, and if that means going back to your old company do it straight away because we are all heading into a very unstable economic future. I realise you may be pissed off with the guy and the promise he made, but it probably was genuine at the time because so many company´s in Finland were shocked how quick the drop in orders in so many sectors happened, and for all you know his company may be facing bankruptcy and you could be wasting your time and energy. Concentrate on getting a job and then think about the broken promise and the action to be taken.

aguinness · Post by **aguinness** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:53 am

O.k, so after contacting my old boss on Monday, I finally heard today I can have my old job back

,albeit less hours and on worse terms but beggars can´t be choosers, they really don´t need anyone but he is a decent guy.Have arranged a meeting with the new jobs boss for Saturday afternoon and see what happens.Thanks for input and suggestions, I think I will be forking out to give this the once over with a Lawyer.

annekmc · Post by **annekmc** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:44 am

aguinness wrote:O.k, so after contacting my old boss on Monday, I finally heard today I can have my old job back ,albeit less hours and on worse terms but beggars can´t be choosers, they really don´t need anyone but he is a decent guy.Have arranged a meeting with the new jobs boss for Saturday afternoon and see what happens.Thanks for input and suggestions, I think I will be forking out to give this the once over with a Lawyer.

So happy you got your old job back

Good luck!

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