Do your kids play football?

TampereOwl · Post by **TampereOwl** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:22 pm

If so, could you post which club, how much it costs per year, and how many training sessions that gets yer for yer cash?

**Sponsor:**

simon · Post by **simon** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:38 pm

http://www.tikkurilanpalloseura.fi/inde ... _id__=3750

about 20€ a month

150min a week training and at least a 90mins worth of competitive football a month

Why?

TampereOwl · Post by **TampereOwl** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:02 pm

I'm trying to find out how much different teams are charging and what they use the money for.

How old are your kids, if you don't mind me asking? And which league do they play in?

ajdias · Post by **ajdias** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:26 pm

Toukola Teräs, about 100 €/year, 1 /hour indoor during winter, 2/½ outdoor for summer plus tournaments.
http://www.toukolanteras.fi/futis/joukkueet.htm (born 2000)
It's on the amateur side, the coach is one of the fathers.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:41 pm

One of my boys (b.1992) played in a Honka team for many years. I was treasurer for most of that time.

Here's a run down of 2007 (2008 is not a complete year as the team disbanded after the summer)

The team started the year with 23 boys. All paid 126e direct to Honka for the club fee. They also paid 77e for the licence and (optional) insurance. As far as I could tell you don't get much for the 126e. Maybe the chance to use the club sauna once in a blue moon, and they used to get free access to watch Honka home games from the stands.

2007 Jan-Dec
Income
opening balance 1073e (carried over from previous year)
parental contributions 4672e (it was roughly 234e per boy, some left during the year)
sponsorship from leaflet distribution 1931e

TOTAL 6603e

Expenditure
Tournament fees 1313e (includes local league games and tournament registration fees)
Training 1427e (essentially rental of practice fields indoors and outdoors and training camp w-end in Kisakallio 1000e)
Equipment 73e (mostly first aid, we didn't buy any new kit that year)
Saimaa Cup 2393e (this is the hostel accomodation and the food for a 3 day tournament, not fees)
Orebro 1054e *
Misc 346e (meeting rooms, viireja etc)

TOTAL 6606e

Ending balance 1070e

The Orebreo tournament cost 5609e (hotel food and bus) plus 2265e (ferry) and the entrance fee (150???) the parents paid for most of it (some accompanied the trip) the team funds covered the costs of the team coach and some extras.

The leaflet distribution brought in some extra cash. It just involved selling some advertising space and then delivering fliers. In previous years we organised our own futsal tournament which also brought in some cash about 1500e for a one-day tournament IIRC. This year (2008) we bought new kit for all the boys but that is not something that needs to be done every year.

The above does not include any costs for the team coach who worked for free

My yougest son (b-1996) also plays for Honka but I don't do the books for his team. We pay a flat 40e month on top of the club fee and licence/insurance. We also pay separately for away tournaments (going to Denmark next year). So, the 40e covers training expenses (they train indoors 3x a week on average and go swimming once a week), coaching fees, local league games and so on. His team does not do any fundraising or get any sponsorship.

HTH let me know of you need more info, I can probably find it somewhere.

TampereOwl · Post by **TampereOwl** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:22 pm

Thanks everyone, especially penelope. Why did the team disband? Is there a hike in costs at this stage?

From what I've heard, Tampere's young footballers pay a lot more than those in metropolitan Helsinki, and they don't get very much for their money. TamU announced today that they would play their home league cup games in Pori and Seinäjoki rather than braving Pirkkahalli, which has caused some injuries recently. One TKT kid broke his arm last month after tripping in the gap between carpet squares, which make a feeble attempt to cover the concrete.

Penelope's youngest seems to be paying about half what I've heard one of the Tampere teams is asking. I don't know what they do with the money.

TampereOwl · Post by **TampereOwl** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:27 pm

As regards more info, a price for practice pitches for junior teams in Espoo would be good.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:49 pm

In winter they practice indoors, mostly in school gyms which cost very little, maybe 30e for a term (one hour a week).
I think we were paying 80e an hour for the indoor upstairs pitch in the Esport Arena bubble in 2007 but that might have been a shared space with another team. I remember we were upset that Honka would allocate us the training areas, we couldn't choose them ourselves, or the timing, take it or leave it. And the best times went to the "best" teams on a "who you know" basis. grrrr. So sometimes we had some inconvenient times, or inconvenient venues. Some of the gyms were just too small for 20+ 16yr old boys, even using a futsal ball. Winter was a bit of a disaster. In summer we managed to find outdoor places (mostly school fields) and Honka has several pitches available in Tapiola (some are grit, some grass) and we even got to use the Ericsson fields in Kirkkonummi one year.

In the training budget I gave you above, was one weekend in Kisakallio training camp, including food and accomodation for 1000e.

BTW my eldest son's team disbanded after the summer because the coach decided to leave. Some of the boys continued in other teams, some gave up football and some continued other sports. But the timing was right as several of the boys were becoming er... distracted (other pursuits

) so even if the coach had stayed on he would have had to merge with another team in order to have enough players for the league games and tournaments. At 16 they seem to get huge injuries and sometimes they are on the benches for weeks at a time.

The insurance fee hikes up as they get older. Now it is optional I think.

TampereOwl · Post by **TampereOwl** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:05 pm

I think we were paying 80e an hour for the indoor upstairs pitch in the Esport Arena bubble in 2007 but that might have been a shared space with another team. I remember we were upset that Honka would allocate us the training areas, we couldn't choose them ourselves, or the timing, take it or leave it. And the best times went to the "best" teams on a "who you know" basis.

This is what I'm trying to get at. Honka have about a quarter of the licensed players in Espoo, and therefore a lot of the pitch bookings. If you were independent you'd have had more control and added 2898 to your team budget, but that would mean training in living rooms (at least in Tampere - pitch bookings are allocated to the biggest clubs first and there's nothing left for new junior teams).

I'm curious as to whether you paid the fee for training direct to Esport Areena or if Honka handled that transaction?

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:28 am

We paid direct to Esport Arena but the slot allocation was made through the Honka office. Before Esport Arena opened we used to train in the Laaksolahti bubble near Leppavaara in winter (most of the boys preferred it there). When Esport Arena opened Honka told us we had to train there, and offered us some times which didn't suit us. So we went back to Laaksolahti and tried to do an independent deal with the old venue. They told us they couldn't deal with us direct, it had to go through Honka. Honka told us we had to go to Esport Arena. In the end we were really short of practice space for the winter. Last year the boys practiced outside right into the winter (no snow) rather than fork out 80e an hour to share the indoor field. But in Jan/Feb I think they had only 1 or 2h a week training as all the decent-sized school gyms were taken and we only had one session (IIRC) in Esport Arena. It's a bit fuzzy now, but I remember it being a real headache all through the winter last season. (I guess the solution is to play futsal in winter but quite a few of the lads didn't enjoy futsal (my son included, he likes to run, not jump around) and the injury issue seemed to worry some parents.)

I just checked my youngest's calendar for January. He has a 3.45pm slot in Esport on Thursdays (which means they have to take a bus as I don't think many parents will be around to take them after school) and a 6pm slot in a school gym (about 20mins drive by car) on Thursdays. Not sure how much they pay for those, but I might be able to find out.

TampereOwl · Post by **TampereOwl** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:14 am

By my reckoning that makes Honka's teams responsible for around €5,000 worth of bookings every week. It's almost certainly more, as junior teams get a discounted rate, and I haven't counted Hesa Cup at all.

I used to think it was nice that 'big' clubs had such huge junior sections in Finland, giving kids the chance to play for the club even if they weren't elite players, but I'm beginning to wish there were more smaller clubs about. Honka get an extra SPL vote for every 50 licensed players, so you can see what they get out of it, and the block bookings they have give them a lot of power over venues. It doesn't seem all that healthy really.

And yeah, if you could find the price of the current bookings that'd be brilliant.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:05 pm

There was some kind of advisory sent out by Parliament (???) a few years ago that stated something to the effect that the likes of Honka had to keep their pro teams' finances separate from the kiddy stuff. So there is a Honka ry for the junior teams and a Honka Oy for the men's (and ladies') teams. All that came about after the Allianssi racket I think. So, nowadays the auditors are happy as the ry books and the Oy books are distinct but in practice I doubt if much has changed. I guess junior league money is somehow funding the Honka pro teams. I have no idea what the relationship is between Esport Arena and Honka. Probably just some kind of a commission on the block bookings... no idea.

The "office" used to ask for a copy of our team's accounts every January and I just ignored them. I could see no reason why we should submit our accounts to them given that they never actually gave us a single euro of funding, didn't supply a coach or even a field for free. And their attutude was borderline hostile if ever I even asked for an ounce of information (like: "where's the Fair Play card for XXX who paid his fee three months ago...").

Regarding Hesa Cup, Honka is an organiser so the junior Honka teams do not pay to partipate. On the other hand, we (parents) are commandeered to help. This can involve selling ice-cream, hotdogs, collecting litter or even dormitory duty the night after the disco in the school hosting the Brazilian under 17s (lads) and the Swedish under 16s (girls)

Now, if I really wanted to rant I could tell you how certain teams always seemed to get lucky when the Hesa Cup groups were drawn... but we ALWAYS landed the Russian Dynamo whatsits and the Brazilian Ace Pro teams in our group, year after year.

This year I believe my youngest's team is opting out of Hesa Cup

my understanding was that this is NOT an option, so we'll wait and see what Honka's reaction will be. But I am quite looking forward to NOT selling hotdogs and soda next summer!

Know what you mean about the smaller clubs. There aren't many in Espoo either. We have HooGee in Haukilahti/Gaddvik. It's a crying shame that there are no school teams and tournaments. That was always fun in the UK.

TampereOwl · Post by **TampereOwl** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:14 pm

I don't know the situation since the Joukos got involved, but they are quite strident in saying they don't get anything, and indeed claim that they bought the rights to the name. It's a very strange way to organise junior football if there is no subsidy involved, as you could have entire leagues organised within the same club. I was talking to a junior club in Helsinki the other week, comparing my home town and Helsinki. He said 'we have so many clubs, I think that's a real strength in Helsinki. It's around 27!"

I played in this league way back when, where at each age group you had at least 70 clubs competing. There were around 120-130 clubs altogther, including Saturday leagues, and hardly any of them had more than one team at any one age group.

I should really go to Hesa Cup next year, but I am rather cynical about it. Häcken in Gothenburg have made a packet on the Gothia Cup over the years, and just signed Veikkausliiga's player of the year, but somehow KäPa and Honka haven't quite managed to do that. I will pm you what I know about them, don't think I should put it on a public forum.

Do you have an idea of ice hockey costs? That'd be interesting to compare.

Rosamunda · Post by **Rosamunda** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:15 pm

TampereOwl wrote:
Do you have an idea of ice hockey costs? That'd be interesting to compare.

One of my kids used to play ice hockey and I remember it was more expensive than the football. He played for Jäähonka, out of Matinkyla. I think most of the money went to hiring the ice (the younger teams had the most inconvenient ice times eg: 7:30 on the ice on a Sunday morning which meant getting up before 6am) and also on paying the coach who did not come for free. Then we had a to buy kit, skates, sticks, the team bag, the team hat, the team anorak, the team calendar, the team photo... there was no end to it. Even the calendar was something like 20 euro (and that was 3 years ago!!!). And we also had to do the fundraising stuff... bake cakes, run raffles, sell brochures etc. In the end we agreed with my son that he could choose ice hockey or football but not both. So he chose football

and also played some non-competitive salibandy that was organised (for free) by the parish

I don't think there are any links between the junior clubs and eg: Espoo Blues. But my son used to get free entry to Blues matches at Länsiauto Arena, and there was always a Blues party at the end of the season with autographs etc so..... maybe.

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