Residence permit - registered partnership

[clarissasc]

Hello,

I'm a Brazilian succesfull physician, and I've been in a relationship with a Finnish woman for the last 3 years, whom I intend to marry (registered partnership) in 2009. I know I can't work as a physician when I arrive, but I have enough savings to support us for more than 1 year, if needed. She doesn't work, is still a student at a University, so she gets only the financial help from the government (but would be willing to start working if it was needed). I am willing to work while I don't get the license to work as a doctor, btw.

Since we met, I went to Finland 5 times and she came to Brazil once, and twice we lived together for 2 months straight (the other times it was for about 20 days), and we plan on finally getting together for good around August this year.

I think it's important the fact that I've been at Tampere University Hospital for 1 month as an observer (foreign doctor), and I got some aid money for my staying (which was deposited in my fiancée's account) and paid taxes then. I rented a flat for the time being, and it was rented also under my fiancée's name.

I've been reading a lot about this matter, but I still have some questions:
1) Would it be better if I started the residence permit process while I'm still in Brazil or after my arrival?
2) Would it matter that we still don't have a date for the marriage? We intend to do that asap (we don't want to plan big parties, so it could happen in August, if possible).
3) We met through an internet fans forum from a TV show. Should we 'forget' to point out this piece of information in the application forms?
4) About bank accounts... Can I open a bank account before getting the permit? Would this bank account work normally or would I have restrictions?
5) Be honest, do you think I'd have a good chance?

I appreciate your help.

Clarissa

[rinso]

From your name I guess it is a same sex partnership?
Although this is not "strange" in Finland, for bureaucratic purposes it's probably going to be a "by the letter procedure".

1. Outside Finland is faster than inside. But if you start outside, you have to wait outside. (you could come over for the wedding, but you have to go back again)
2. "Intention to marry" is no reason for a residence permit. You have to be cohabiting for two years if you're not married.
3. ??
4. No, you need your social security number for that.
5. It will be a time consuming process. But with your background I think there is a good chance for success.
And although you cannot start in the health care, you could try to get your licence validated for the Finnish situation. When you've learned enough Finnish opportunities will present themselves. (public healthcare is short on doctors)
This may sound positive, but it will be a difficult and frustrating time.

[clarissasc]

3. ??
4. No, you need your social security number for that.

It's a same sex relationship indeed.

3. I never really thought about that, don't worry. Some people told me I should do that, but it didn't feel right and sounded like a stupid move.
4. I read somewhere about being possible to have a provisory SS number. Is that really possible?

Thanks, by the way.

[Rip]

I know I can't work as a physician when I arrive, but I have enough savings to support us for more than 1 year, if needed.

I'm inclined to think it may take cearly more than a year. It sounds you have professional contacts in Finland. I'd very much suggest you start asking them who to contact so you can ask (from somebody who really knows) what are the terms you must meet and what would be a realistic time estimate to achieve that.

I am willing to work while I don't get the license to work as a doctor, btw.

When you are legally qualified to work as a physician, I'd expect the employment situation to be good. Before that (for any kind of work), it may be clearly worse that you expect.

2) Would it matter that we still don't have a date for the marriage? We intend to do that asap (we don't want to plan big parties, so it could happen in August, if possible).

In order to qualify for residence permit as a family member you'd need to be either
A) Be married (or in equivalent registered partnership)
B) Lived together for two years
C) Have a common child (or some other vary good cause, but I do not know what those other other causes be)

You have no chance for 'C' and unless I misread you, you pretty far from 'B' too, so 'A' is the only option. If you two have made up your mind, I'd suggest you make your partnership official ASAP, after which you have proper grounds for applying for residence permit. (I myself got married one month after making the final decision - a few weeks to get the papers and then waiting bit to arrange some time off from work for the intercontinental trip...)

1) Would it be better if I started the residence permit process while I'm still in Brazil or after my arrival?

I don't really know. In our case my wife came here and applied the permit from the local police.
Good points: If you are a qualified family member your right to stay in Finland while the application is being processed clearly stated in law,and oyu can be together of course.
Bad points: At least in Helsinki the processing time is likely over half a year. Unless there are "exceptional grounds" (whatever they are..) you must be given a decision not later than in nine months - but quite easily it won't be much faster either. And while the application is being processed you have no right to be employed (for any kind of job). It may feel like a long wait. You're also outside of all social security, so you should see that you have a suitable international private health insurance policy.

If you apply permit in Brazil, I think at least officially it is in Brazil where you're also supposed to receive your permit, and I don't think you have any clear rights to visit or stay in Finland in the meantime, other than what Brazilians in general have. In this case your application would be handled by Migri. I've got the impression they might be bit faster than Helsinki police (but don't expect too much)

My suggestion would be to get the documents you need for partnership (possibly also a prenuptial agreement, if you think that is something you should have), fly here and go to the local magistrate office and submit the residence permit application after you get back to Brazil (or have your spouse to submit it for you here).This way you should have a fairly good chance of actually having the permit in or around August (instead of just starting the application process then)

3) We met through an internet fans forum from a TV show. Should we 'forget' to point out this piece of information in the application forms?

It does not sound too bad to me (you have actually spent a fair amount of time properly together afterwards). Truth is especially recommended for those who don't have a good enough memory to lie consistently
More seriously: Giving false information with your application (if it would be found out) would always be good reason to deny it.

4) About bank accounts... Can I open a bank account before getting the permit? Would this bank account work normally or would I have restrictions?

It seems to vary from bank to bank. We had enough cards accounts from two continents that for starters we just looked for the free options. S-Pankki was happy to take in new customer as soon as I have persuaded the magistrate office to issue a Finnish ID number for my wife. Handelsbank on the other hand did open an account, but a simple ATM could be applied only with a Finnish issued ID (you need a residence permit for those of course). You will likely be ineligible for most Finnish credit cards for some years (a secondary card for a card of your spouse is sometimes possible).

5) Be honest, do you think I'd have a good chance?

A non-informed opinion: I'd be surprised if you don't run into any difficulties at some point, but on the other hand I don't see why you could not make it in the end.

[clarissasc]

I know it will take me more than just 1 year to get the license to work as a physician, I meant that I can support us for more than one year in the worst scenario, meaning in case I don't get a job at all.

About the timing of the application... I was thinking about applying right away, not in August. Do you think I would have a chance of getting the license before August (or a bit over August)?

Bank accounts... of course I could use my Brazilian accounts and credit cards for some time, I'm just wondering how easy it would be for me to transfer everything to Finland right away.

Thanks, Rip. Even though you made it sound a bit pessimistic, I'm glad you replied, because there were some details I wasn't aware.

[Rip]

Personal experience with the Personal Identification Code (often called "Social security number", even though it has not been the official name for many years)

Day after Mrs Rip arrived to Finland, Mr and Mrs Rip went to police to submit the residence permit application. After that they continued to Helsinki magistrate office to register that she has moved into Finland and Helsinki.

Receptionist: "Sorry, we can't do this. Mrs Rip does not have a residence permit"

Mr RIp: "it says in the "Kotikuntalaki" (http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1994/19940201 ) that a people moving into Finland have a place of domicile in Finland from the time they enter the country provided that:
(list of options of which one should be full filled)
'4) is a family member of such a person who has a place of domicile in Finland'
She is my wife and I'm a Finnish citizen and resident and she is legally staying in the country while her permit is being processed so that applies to her so she should be registered"

Receptionist goes to talk to her boss.

Mr Rip explains the same thing to him. Family Rip is asked to wait until they can get behind the desk the guy with the degree in law.
(Mrs Rip indicates she'd be happy to go home by now...)

The lawyer says Mr RIp is wrong. He is unable to give reason (based on law) that Mr Rip would see as valid.

More than slightly frustrated Mr Rip then asks if his wife could just submit the registration form, just to get an actual written decision on the matter (which he considers appealing).

Receptionist: "No, we don't accept the form from you"

Mr Rip:"Is there _any_way_ to get written decission on your refusal to register my wife"

Receptionist: "You can make a written complaint. I can give you paper"

(brings a blank A4 paper and a pen)

Mr Rip writes in English and by hand a one page complaint letter why he thinks his wife should be eligible (based on "kotikuntalaki") for registration, and gives it to Mrs Rip to read and sign.

Month later the magistrate office informs family Rip that they have decided to register Mrs Rip with a "temporary domicile". Mr Rip is not too convinced there is grounds for the "temporary" designation, but decides to skip that fight. Mrs Rip goes and opens her first Finnish bank accounts and ATM, (secondary) credit, library and Helsinki transportation cards with her new Personal ID number.

[clarissasc]

Finnish bureaucracy seems to be just like the Brazilian one.

I hope I have a better luck and don't have to do a written omplaint.

[enk]

I'd also recommend having your fiancée ask around at http://keskustelu.seta.fi , particularly
in the Rainbow section which is for families. There are a(n albeit small) number of Finns there
who are in registered partnerships with foreigners and AFAIK only one of them is from the EU.

Good luck and welcome to Finland!

-enk

[clarissasc]

Just told her to do that. Thanks.

[Rip]

Do you think I would have a chance of getting the license before August (or a bit over August)?

I don't work with these things, but assuming they don't find your application suspicious (it does not sound bad for me - of course my opinion is not worth anything here), Migri is currently stating on their web page for processing time for "Family ties, Family member of a Finnish citizen" as 4.5 months (http://www.migri.fi/netcomm/content.asp?article=2588 ).
In the Aliens Act it says
"Section 69a (380/2006)
Decision on an application made on the
basis of family ties
A decision on an application for a
residence permit made on the basis of family
ties must be served on the applicant not later
than nine months after the filing of the
application. In exceptional circumstances the
service may take place at a later date."

So chances for August would seem pretty good if you'd apply through Migri now (If you'd come to Finland and apply here you must apply via the local police office), assuming the initial decision is a positive one (ond you don't need to start trying to appeals)

But as pointed by me and others, you must have the marriage equivalent registration first, before you have legal grounds to apply for a residence permit (based on family ties). That takes a little bit of time, even if you act quickly.

I'm just wondering how easy it would be for me to transfer everything to Finland right away.

When you manage to get the Finnish ID code you can certainly open bank accounts (I wrote already bit about that ID code...) I vaguely recall somebody had written here earlier that some banks would even allow opening account before that, but I lack personal experience.

BTW: In case you have a lot of cash to transfer, unless the whole banking system collapses your money should be guaranteed up to a sum of 50 000€/bank - so being a customer in more than one bank can offer some extra safety (we live interesting times...)

[enk]

Not a prob

As for the bank accounts, I find it much easier to keep accounts in both countries
so that when we go back to visit, we can just use the local bank account.
Also it helps for when family wants to deposit money for presents, etc. There's never
a lot in the account, but enough that it makes it worthwhile (and the fact that
I have a no-fee account back in the States) to keep.

-enk

[clarissasc]

I've been thinking about keeping an account in Brazil, but that won't be free for me.

I think after all I'll just wait till August to go, get married and start the paperwork. I don't know. I'll ask the embassy what they think is the best, with what I have right now (no marriage certificate).

[SGaudreau]

Olá Clarissa:

From my experience, it is best if you wait to submit your paperwork until you have all of the forms from the appropriate authorities for processing your Residence Permit (oleskelulupa) based on Family Ties. You will have to submit the official version of your registered partnership form from the Magistrate (Maistraatti) along with all of the other documentation they request. You do have it a bit easier than I did when my wife and I did this however as you can actually apply from Finland. As other's have pointed out, it may be faster from your local embassy in Brazil, however, there is also an advantage to doing it here in Finland. One that immediately jumps to mind is that you can start language classes immediately at the local Uni or municipal education center. This will serve several purposes:

1.) You can begin to understand what your Dear Mrs means when she starts mumbling things - but be sure to learn spoken Finnish as well as written...oh..and slang (hopefully you are in the capital area)

2.) You can start tackling the language requirements for taking your certifications here in Finland in order to practice medicine - I moved over 5 years ago and there was 1 woman in my language class who was also a physician from Brazil. IIRC - it took her roughly 18 months to progress enough to sit her exams and is now a practicing Dr, here. Just so you know, it isn't impossible. It is hard, but not impossible. I passed my national fluency exam in 2 and a half years.

3.) No matter what people say about being able to function in English in the capital region (yes you can), it is imho, a great way to aid the integration process into Finnish life if you are attempting to learn the language.

As for how you met, being honest is the best policy. Finnish authorities do not like it when things are kept from them. When my wife and I submitted my paperwork, we also submitted all of the receipts for our plane tickets etc - including all the banking information and all the other 346545 things they ask you. Migri wants to be sure that they are not letting in people who are just trying to take advantage of their utopia of a country - and yes I mean that with all sorts of truth and also laced with copious amounts of sarcasm. Our experience was actually quite painless (aside from the fees for every damn thing under the sun) and didn't take that long - of course when my wife and I got married, we were the 251 same-sex couple to register our partnership (over 5 years ago) and I think the immigration authorities thought that there is no way in hell someone would 1 - fake being gay and 2 - not only fake being gay, but enter into a same-sex registered partnership in order to move to Finland (the tropical, high salary, low tax paradise that it is) so for us it was fairly easy to get me here - permit processing took 10 days (yes 10 days) from N.Y. and I moved 5 weeks later

One question - do you have a portuguese gran or mom or dad which might enable you to qualify for Portuguese citizenship? - might make it easier Sadly, I was naturalized in the US and lost my Portuguese citizenship and was too old to get it back by declaration by the time this whole "Move to Finland" thing happened.

So..my answers to your questions based on my personal experience are:
1) Decide if you can survivie the time without work until you learn the language on your current savings - be prepared for a culture shock here btw.
2.) Yes it matters - you have to have done the deed in the Magistrate's office and have the officially stamped paper.
3.) If it asks how you met - yes, tell the truth - On-Line is not an uncommon item these days.
4.) Magic Personal Identity number needed - in order to get that you have to be registered in the population (as someone else pointed out)
5.) If all of your stuff is in order - I don't see why not - additionally, the Finnish Health Care system is always in need of new doctors. I seem to remember an article somewhere about the need for Docs that speak more than just Finnish, Swedish and English...

Bem-vindo à Finlândia ... quando você chega

-Stephanie

[clarissasc]

Oi, Stephanie!

I must say I was quite happy to read your message. It made me smile and gave me high hopes.

About the portuguese relative... the closest one is a great-grandfather, and there are no documents of his existence left. It would be a process longer and harder to get the portuguese naturalization first.

I think I can survive without working for 1 year (maybe more), but I'd like to get a job before running out of money.

I really hope things work the way we're planning, and I hope I can get my license. I know little Finnish now, but I'm going to start my classes again next month, so I'll know already something more when I arrive, by August.

[enk]

3.) If it asks how you met - yes, tell the truth - On-Line is not an uncommon item these days.

Yeah, I can give you fun stories of what it was like to say that in 1991 ;D

-enk