Working in English

[jas_rho]

You are one piece of work. Again someone else on "attack mode". Did it even cross your mind to consider asking me "why I had such a difficult time attempting to learn Finnish". To me that would have been the polite thing to do before going on in your speech about how people who "dont learn it just dont try to use it enough". And "you gotta be persistent".
If you would again have asked me I would have told you that I have a learning disability and as much as I battled it and I could not sit through my classes in Kerava or Riihimaki.

People, please dont assume that I am not a hard worker and looking for the easy way out. I do my best. Things said here can really be funny at times, but when you accuse people of things without knowing them, you can really be hurtful. And over the last 1 1/2 years (that I have been reading here) that happens way too often.

Don't cry man I wasn't attacking you. I am just telling you that you gotta work hard and don't give up because I know from personal experience that its hard but I also know that the hard work pays off. I thought that would give you some motivation. I wasn't saying you are dumb and my comments still would have been the same had I known you had a learning disorder. And wouldn't it be more offending if I said "Hey, why can't you learn Finnish, do you have a learning disorder or something?" At least you got to go to a class to study Finnish. I didn't have that. I learned from a couple books and "on the street" and then after getting a job I learned there, FROM USING IT. And again, I am not the smartest person in the world and don't learn languages just like that. Actually I studied German for 5 years and don't know but a few words. I can now speak Finnish well but can't tell you any rules of why one word goes like this and another like that, I just know cause I learned it while speaking it.
Anyway, sorry to have offended you but if you get offended that easily then you got a tough time ahead. Good luck buddy.

[Upphew]

I was just calling places all over and asking to come meet them and see them face to face. I would tell them how hard a worker I am and all that stuff and finally after talking to enough people someone hired me. It wasn't easy but it was possible.

It's good to say one is hard worker, but you better be prepared to work hard if you say so. Same with CVs: if you are good with something, you better be good. I think that American CV could land someone in job that he/she is not capable to do. And if company is not experienced with foreign workers that could lead to problems for future applicants. If Finn is not man of his word -> fire -> hire new one. If foreigner is not man of his word -> fire > hire a Finn.

[jas_rho]

I was just calling places all over and asking to come meet them and see them face to face. I would tell them how hard a worker I am and all that stuff and finally after talking to enough people someone hired me. It wasn't easy but it was possible.

It's good to say one is hard worker, but you better be prepared to work hard if you say so. Same with CVs: if you are good with something, you better be good. I think that American CV could land someone in job that he/she is not capable to do. And if company is not experienced with foreign workers that could lead to problems for future applicants. If Finn is not man of his word -> fire -> hire new one. If foreigner is not man of his word -> fire > hire a Finn.

Yeah I can agree with that. I almost said it in that post when I wrote it but yeah if you say you are a hard worker, you better prove it. And you better be able to do what you say you can do in your CV. I agree

[Pursuivant]

I have to admit though, after you get one job, the other jobs come a lot easier!

thats true for everybody... you fill in 300 applications, you get nothing, then you get 1 interview and then you get a call they'll be hiring you and you say yes and the next day you get 3 calls from other places wanting to interview you... same though with women... you hitch up and all of a sudden all the bints at the bar start making passes at you...

[raamv]

I have to admit though, after you get one job, the other jobs come a lot easier!

thats true for everybody... you fill in 300 applications, you get nothing, then you get 1 interview and then you get a call they'll be hiring you and you say yes and the next day you get 3 calls from other places wanting to interview you... same though with women... you hitch up and all of a sudden all the bints at the bar start making passes at you...

Which proves the theory of Finland having a good "used Car" market..so they want to be sure that it works!!!

[Pursuivant]

To me that would have been the polite thing to do before going on in your speech about how people who "dont learn it just dont try to use it enough". And "you gotta be persistent". If you would again have asked me I would have told you that I have a learning disability and as much as I battled it and I could not sit through my classes in Kerava or Riihimaki.

The fact remains with any disability you have to work even more and be even more persistent.
http://yle.fi/elavaarkisto/?s=s&g=4&ag=28&t=485&a=03529
The one on the guy going fishing 4th down is worth watching.

[Ravvy]

... Ravvy's obnoxious comment ...

Huh? The little winking face meant nothing?

[Rosamunda]

If you would again have asked me I would have told you that I have a learning disability and as much as I battled it and I could not sit through my classes in Kerava or Riihimaki.

One of my kids is dyslexic and learning Finnish has been expecially hard for him. The rote learning of word lists, pedantic attention to grammar and total lack of creativity and originality in both the materials and the lessons have been a real barrier to learning for him in the 7 years we have been here. Finnish teachers teach by the book, towards the exam and show little flexibility in dealing with different learning types. It took the Min of Edu a long time to realise that some foreign kids need special ed support in school, the extra budgets only started to come through a couple of years ago but there is still a dire shortage of specialist teachers who can deal with learning difficulties in an foreign language situation.

Have you tried CLIL? That stands for something like Content Language Integrated Learning (????) and means learning a language through some other subject. eg: going to cookery classes in Finnish or learning computer skills in Finnish (one of my kids has health ed lessons and geography in French at school - similar idea). Some municipalities are starting to offer CLIL-based evening courses specifically aimed at foreigners.

[hychamaz]

If you would again have asked me I would have told you that I have a learning disability and as much as I battled it and I could not sit through my classes in Kerava or Riihimaki.

One of my kids is dyslexic and learning Finnish has been expecially hard for him. The rote learning of word lists, pedantic attention to grammar and total lack of creativity and originality in both the materials and the lessons have been a real barrier to learning for him in the 7 years we have been here. Finnish teachers teach by the book, towards the exam and show little flexibility in dealing with different learning types. It took the Min of Edu a long time to realise that some foreign kids need special ed support in school, the extra budgets only started to come through a couple of years ago but there is still a dire shortage of specialist teachers who can deal with learning difficulties in an foreign language situation.

Have you tried CLIL? That stands for something like Content Language Integrated Learning (????) and means learning a language through some other subject. eg: going to cookery classes in Finnish or learning computer skills in Finnish (one of my kids has health ed lessons and geography in French at school - similar idea). Some municipalities are starting to offer CLIL-based evening courses specifically aimed at foreigners.

Thank you Penelope. I apreciate your advice. I will definately look into CLIL. I was really beginning to lose faith here. I have read your posts and you actually care. I know that I will be attacked (again) for this but you seem to be the only one that "gets" it. I appreciate that. I started this post to educate people on what is available to them and to help them. Here is what I got for posting. (I should never have posted in the first place) Phil's creation I am sure was not intended like this.

1st- A joke was made by Ravvy that I should look for a job in Inari
2nd- Little Frank reposted my entire message, correcting every one of my spelling and grammatical mistakes. I guess he deleted his post now.
3rd-Hank made his usual sly remark that helped no one
4th-jas_rho-tells me to keep using my Finnish as there are tons of sob stories already here.
5th-jas-rho tells me "dont cry man..." and that I have to just work hard. His following words show me that he knows NOTHING about learning disabilities. Then he tells me "sorry to have offended you but if you get offended that easily then you got a tough time ahead."

Not to say that there was not some great advice by some in this post. There definately was. Thank you. It is just the people trying to be funny, not staying on topic, and just plain being obnoxious that bothers me. We have all seen it on this Forum. I am the last person to usually be sensitive here, but this Forum eventually gets to you. People can be real tough guys on this forum. I doubt they would be that way with me face to face or nose to nose with me. I don't know if the Finnish culture has made many hard or what. But be sure, I will definately not post again trying to help others out, as I did starting this topic. Many have left this Forum because of a few idiots when they need help also and just get sly remarks. It is just wrong. I know that I will again get some nasty remarks here and those that agree with me are scared to post, as they will be attacked to. Just PM me if you want to talk sometime. I started this topic to help people. My wife will find me answers by googling them from now on if she doesnt know them. If you want to keep being off topic or nasty, they will be forwarded to Phil so that you can be banned. (read the forum rules).
There is no need for anyone else to address me as I am off to the Canary Islands for 2 weeks in the morning. Stay warm.

[Ravvy]

1st- A joke was made by Ravvy that I should look for a job in Inari

Well in 90+% of the social situations that I might find myself, this type of smart-ass searching-for-humor comment might not be remembered for longer than about 10 seconds after I said it. But I didn't say it to a bunch of friends, I wrote it on a website to someone I've never met. I did the same sort of thing back a couple years ago to Karen and was sorry afterwards but never told her, & I'm not going to make that mistake again. I never meant any ill-will, and if that is the way it was taken, then for that I am sorry. (and the same to you, Karen)

Just to clarify:
1. I do not know dick-sh!T about looking for work in Finland.
2. I have never lived in Finland. I don't know diddly-squat about what it is like to live in Finland.
3. I barely know any Finnish, and I think it is a brutally hard language to learn.
4. My hat is off to anybody who is trying to make a go of it in Finland, native or import does not matter.
5. Of course if you live in Jarvenpaa you are not going to look for a job in Inari. That much geography I understand.
6. Please consider that some of these stupid posts are just my way of sticking a placeholder on a topic, so that I get notifications via e-mail when someone adds a comment. I don't spend much time these days scanning topics in FF, but when I do I like to tag subjects which might have some promise, so that I can track it and look at the comments.
7. Good luck with your job hunt. Honest.

[Pursuivant]

1st- A joke was made by Ravvy that I should look for a job in Inari

You know I didn't take it as a joke. Do you actually realise that in Finland theres *thousands* of natives commuting huge between cities - even immigrants and not only those construction gastarbeiters - we had here one bloke commuting from Oulu to Helsinki, living weeks or months away from home, just because there is a job for them only in another part from the country where they live at? So I do honestly wonder what exactly makes you think that is a joke?

I am off to the Canary Islands for 2 weeks in the morning.

Have fun on my tax moneys!

[Pursuivant]

5. Of course if you live in Jarvenpaa you are not going to look for a job in Inari. That much geography I understand.

On the other hand, theres a lot of people who are originally from Inari looking for work around Järvenpää...

7. Good luck with your job hunt. Honest.

You know I don't think he'd get hired even he spoke fluent Finnish. The wicked Finns don't like attitude.

[EP]

You know I didn't take it as a joke.

I didn´t take it as a joke either. I thought that it is not a bad idea at all. There are many seasonal jobs in Lapland, and because many tourists are foreign there is also need for languages other than Finnish. Last time I was there the guys at the ski lifts didn´t speak Finnish. Also many restaurant workers work winters in Lapland, summers in south. But of course that is not a great option for people with families.

[Pursuivant]

But of course that is not a great option for people with families.

I was a sailor. *Before* the time of Internet or mobile phones mind you. Cry me an ocean.

[Karhunkoski]

Rum, buggery and the lash?