Hotel cleaners include a Government Minister

[Tiwaz]

Ah yes.
When Finn expresses annoyance over immigrants failing to make themselves employable, by learning to speak the language and behave properly. It is whining.

When immigrant expresses annoyance that they do not get job they want because they do not know how to speak or behave properly in Finland it is expression of urgent and important problem in society.

Got the point tammy and blurear. We should be suitably concerned over welfare and happiness of immigrants. It is so wrong to tell them to sort their own problem.

To this date it has been my understanding that employers have right to choose their workers. If employers think that they are rather without worker than hire immigrant, for example due to fear of causing disruptions in working conditions or whatever, they have every right not to hire the immigrant.

Hundreds of thousands of Finns are out there without a job. Job is not right. It is, in certain sense, reward for convincing someone that you will be able to bring more positive than negative things to job. If you can't, you do not get a job.

[Pursuivant]

what I am asking is why SOL and the likes are whining they cannot get workers in Finland and are hiring abroad. or is it that the wicked foreigners already in the country know too much Finnish and have enough networks that they cannot be screwed? as was with the Chinese subcontractors? its stinking there somewhere and it ain't them foreigners' cooking thats giving the whiff... I think Thors is either blind or stupid she cannot see the "need for workers" is a ploy to get a "cheap exploitable workforce" as in virtual slave labor that can be dismissed at will. and the ecohippiess are quite blindly following the lead and they cannot see their humanitarian values are being abused by the big business to create a new underclass in Finland.

[Tiwaz]

Come on... Thors has only one interest. Swedish language.

Everything beyond that is irrelevant to her. She doesn't care about little immigrants, except as possible voters for RKP.

I doubt it is even networks of immigrants present in Finland. They just might already know how expensive living in Finland is. Guy from China who is told how many yuans he would make in Finland has no grasp that living in Finland costs same amount as it would in China, except in euros and not yuans.

Once harsh reality hits in they have name in contract and are in foreign country with no practical knowledge of anything.

[JaDLB]

I have been for 3 years living there and i can say one thing.

Yes Immigrants are not given a chance and there is a need to give better language classes and there is a need to create new jobs other then cleaning but nobody can say that Finns are blamed for this.

Immigrants problems are in every country, we think coming to a country is just so easy and will make us so rich and we will have the nice car and house but reality Finns work harder then us and they don´t even sometimes get a chance to get a job. ask me, me and my wife are unemployed now and we are not getting a chance.

Stop nagging, Finns or Immigrants and try do something about me, Finland is a democracy and you have rights and there is a system. Please learn how to get your rights as immigrants, please learn the damn language and if you email them ur CV and they tell u application received and we will let you know, don´t shut up. go to their offices, meet them and try harder.

Finns are honest and if they see that you deserve it, then you will get it. I beleive in the Finnish system, in the honesty of the Finns. i beleive in the immigrants rights to get a better job then cleaning. this is not a war!

this is an unfair world, so stop blaming the small frozen nation in the north of the world, they are doing something for you as Immigrants that you don´t even got in your country. You choose freedom, you choose Finland. Work and you will be rewarded.

My ex-boss started as a cleaning lady 20 years ago, she now owns 3 restaurants in helsinki. tell me now, did she work hard??? yes she did.

a freind of mine owns his own cleaning company and now he owns a house,car and can afford living well. cleaning is not a shame, you make ur choices. they offer you the freedom! just try harder people and stop blaming the damn r-kioski or s-market kassa finnish student for getting the better job. you could be there if you try to learn the damn language.

[odon]

When i came in as a post grad student, i could not get any part time job, then my foreign friends said try cleaners job, i phoned a lot of places,,,,,,that was 1998.....then because i got no finnish, i could not even get a cleaners job!!

Now mind you....that was 1998!! So in some way things have changed!!

i am proud of you foreigners......you are making a change to this country!!

[nsdh]

That is true that most of the cleaners are students. Why dont they spend those money in R&D(or get private sponsers) and employ the students and integrate work with study? I guess 500 euros per month is enough for students...If not for all courses...atleast they can do it for IT, eng related courses.

95+% of the employers dont want to hire forigners even if you are skilled more than a finnish guys. If they where not able to find finnish guys and the project is going down..then they may think of hiring forigner...that too they will interview and will make hold until their further search completes....student life is awful in this country.

[Oombongo]

I applied for one job when I was student in 2003. I even got an interview call and things went fine.
Suddenly I got an e-mail from them stating that they did "an internal transfer".

Unless you work for an International firm, you get a job here not what you know but who you know. Kinda sad but true. I am not sure how it is UK or in US.

[nsdh]

In US they prefer Skill+Cheap Labor, If you are skillful and ready to join in entry level salary with 3+ exp then u hav job market open.

[Rick1]

what I am asking is why SOL and the likes are whining they cannot get workers in Finland and are hiring abroad. or is it that the wicked foreigners already in the country know too much Finnish and have enough networks that they cannot be screwed? as was with the Chinese subcontractors? its stinking there somewhere and it ain't them foreigners' cooking thats giving the whiff... I think Thors is either blind or stupid she cannot see the "need for workers" is a ploy to get a "cheap exploitable workforce" as in virtual slave labor that can be dismissed at will. and the ecohippiess are quite blindly following the lead and they cannot see their humanitarian values are being abused by the big business to create a new underclass in Finland.

Hear hear, totally right. If kokomus or other parties and uppergod Nokia Ollila start again with their demands for more foreign labour here, they first have their basics in place. What do you do with all those people when they get thrown out of a job (as easy here as in the USA)?????? They will always be last on the list to get into job again.

[Pursuivant]

Was having a coffee at my Romanian mates yesterday night... was talking of the new Nokia factory in Romania. They make 12-hour shifts and the pay was 200 a month before taxes...

[FIRAT]

I coudlnt even get a cleaning job here for 1 year...Any job is okay for me but well i live in a way too small town and nearly impossible for a foreigner to get a job here,even cleaning jobs requires language.Then clever Finnish guys around complain about we spend their tax moneys,hell i will spend untill the every single cent is gone as long as i dont get job,what else can be done..

[Pursuivant]

however there is a screaming need for workers...

[Rick1]

Yep, 90 % of work that Finns do not want to do, so it still goes pretty well here. My estimation is that this has to change the coming years, forced re-education of workers or otherwise decreasing of benefits. A funny thing btw is that nurses and teachers are the ones with best chances of getting a loan nowadays , not those overpaid paperworkers.

[Pursuivant]

paperworkers and sailors shot themselves in the leg with too strong unions... I should have taken my liberian book tests and gone international... they hated me on the ferries... if I'd had money and senses to do the trig to get a coast pilot licence I could be now a master of a pilgrim ship... jeez... if only to go back in time...