Nokia threat to quit Finland

[kimster46]

wth ... http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2B ... 33065.html

i havent found the HS article which is mentioned in the news ..any links ??

[Pursuivant]

Just on the top of the f*n HS main page my china. With Vanhanen -as usual - denying any knowlege of such threat by the government.

[Jukka Aho]

wth ... http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2B ... 33065.html

i havent found the HS article which is mentioned in the news ..any links ??

• Kännykkäyhtiön painostus sai aikaan Lex Nokian (HS.fi – the story published today in which they claim the law was lobbied by the big N with an unprecedented force, and with threats to leave Finland if the company is not going to have its way)
• Vanhanen: Hallitus ei tiedä Nokian lähtöuhkailuista (HS.fi – the Prime Minister’s comments to the above)
• Prime Minister Unaware of Nokia Threat to Leave Finland (YLE News)
• ”Lex Nokia” gets blessing from Constitutional Law Committee (Earlier reporting on the subject by HS.fi – note that the Constitutional Law Committee is a political advisory body appointed by the Government; not an independent or politically neutral court of law.)
• Lex Nokia rikkoo oikeusvaltion (The blog of Jyrki J. J. Kasvi, an MP and one of the VPs of the Green League, an IT expert, and known to be fiercely opposed to the government bill in question)

[kimster46]

whats wrong in "monitoring employee emails " , companies can do that , because they own it . company email is suppose to use for company business / purposes ..

PS : if my boss started monitoring the emails i sent , i might start my YT soon

[Tiwaz]

Privacy laws.

What is to stop company from monitoring employee phone use? I only have one phone, which is my work one (my personal number switched to company since I really did not want to juggle two phones)...

So what if company could monitor my phone activities?

And since we go that far... Why not monitor rest of employee activities too!

After all, we get all sorts of information in this business. Perhaps I might sneak them to competitors using regular letters! So time to put them on monitoring too!
My home internet and email should be monitored too! Those dirty free email addresses might be the next problem.

Henry Ford was running organisation designed to supervise his employees and their lives, even outsider work hours. I damn sure do not want to go back to that.

[Rabs]

during work time, we use official emails, offical phones... once out of work, personal emails, personal phones. What's so wrong employer wanting to know what goes with offical emails and phones!! Even US president's official emails are archived... and if i didn't miss out the content of the news, it says only whom and when it was sent, not the whole the content of the message thereby adhering to privacy laws.........

[Oombongo]

Don't use job e-mail for private stuff. Simple
and don't visit net forums, gossip columns, youtube and other websites when you are at job. Also simple

[Tiwaz]

Rabs...

What about those who only have one phone, which doubles as work and private phone (for this purpose we are taxed for phone benefit).
Our work and private mingle.

And again, question is where would you draw the line with snooping into privacy of workers.

If you make case that emails, internet connections and phones should be watched because employees might leak information through them...

Why stop there? Knowledge the employee has does not disappear when they leave the office. And huge majority of dataleaks come in form of USB memorysticks. Which cannot be traced unless you start to monitor EVERYTHING employee does.

As for US president. I do not care what he does or does not. US president is irrelevant to me as far as my rights and privacy are concerned. Specially since this is not USA.

[Mook]

Under finnish law, your company email and phone are "private".

[kimster46]

Under finnish law, your company email and phone are "private".

may be that is the reason they introducing new law . But in any case if authorities wants , they can monitor everything without ur knowledge.
As far as company phone is considered , though law says `private` , looks there are clearly defined rules in each organisation , how to use it . my employer has that

[Tiwaz]

Under finnish law, your company email and phone are "private".

may be that is the reason they introducing new law . But in any case if authorities wants , they can monitor everything without ur knowledge.
As far as company phone is considered , though law says `private` , looks there are clearly defined rules in each organisation , how to use it . my employer has that

Authorities also have rather strict rules according to which they can access that information. Including court order.
And if they abuse this access and media gets a sniff...
And over here they often do.

And again, there is difference with company phones. My company phone is also my private phone. I get taxed for it every month. Thus I have every right to use it for private purposes. And all those purposes I expect to remain private.

This here law is not about authorities having access to your data. They already have but they have to access it according to extremely strict rules.

Lex Nokia would give employer free hand at watching over it all with pathetically vague and open limitations.

[Rip]

whats wrong in "monitoring employee emails " , companies can do that , because they own it . company email is suppose to use for company business / purposes ..

I could live with that. The key point is that practically every legal expert agrees that the law violates constitution, and if to be approved at all it should be approved as a constitutional law (which requires much greater majority in parliament). However the governing majority in parliament completely ignores this and it this contempt of constitution that bothers me more than the actual law itself (although there are other more substantial issues regarding to law itself too (it does not apply only to corporate emails))

Now, in principle the courts here have right to nullify a law which is deemed to clearly violate constitution, but I doubt they have balls to do that.

As another less important issue, it seems the offending piece of legislation should be quite inefficient in doing what it is supposed to do - who in earth would use their company email if they want send some business secrets to a competing company?

[Mook]

Under finnish law, your company email and phone are "private".

may be that is the reason they introducing new law . But in any case if authorities wants , they can monitor everything without ur knowledge.
As far as company phone is considered , though law says `private` , looks there are clearly defined rules in each organisation , how to use it . my employer has that

Authorities can, but your company may not.

The privacy of your company phone and email is something that you cannot give away. So, regardless of company rules, work contract etc. it would be illegal for your company to look at your phone records or email.

[Pursuivant]

Why not monitor rest of employee activities too!

KONTTORIN SÄÄNNÖT

1. Wirkailijan on joka päiwä lakaistawa lattiat, pyyhittäwä pölyt huonekaluista ja hyllyistä.

2. Joka päiwä täytetään öljylamput, puhdistetaan uunit ja ristikot. Ikkunat pestään kerran wiikossa.

3. Jokainen wirkailija tuo päiwittäin sisälle sangon wettä ja kapallisen hiiliä.

4. Kynät teroitetaan huolellisesti, mutta kärjen saa kukin wuolla mieleisekseen.

5. Konttori awataan klo 7 ja suljetaan klo 8 illalla paitsi pyhinä, jolloin se on suljettuna. Jokaisen wirkailijan odotetaan käywän kirkossa sunnuntaina ja muutenkin wiettäwän ajan siweellisesti.

6. Mieswirkailijat saavat yhden illan wapaata wiikossa woidakseen seurustella tyttöjen kanssa, ahkera kirkossakäwijä saa kuitenkin kaksi iltaa.

7. Naiswirkailijoiden tulee elää suuressa siweydessä, erittäinkin nuorten neitojen. Kaikenlainen flirttailu konttorissa on kielletty.

8. Konttorin porsliininen lawoire on yksinomaan konttorin chefin ja kasöörin käytössä. Muut käyttäkööt pesemiseen kuparista lawoirea.

9. Kun työtunnit owat lopussa on ilta wietettäwä lukemalla Raamattua ja muita hywiä kirjoja.

10. Se, joka polttaa espanjalaisia sikaareja, nauttii alkoholijuomaa mitä tahansa, ajattaa partansa parturissa tai käy wedonlyönti- tai muissa julkisissa paikoissa, antaa aiheen epäillä hänen arwoaan, tarkoituksiaan, vilpittömyyttään ja kunniallisuuttaan.

11. Wirkailija, joka on uskollisesti ja moitteettomasti suorittanut työnsä wiiden wuoden aikana ja osoittautunut säästäwäiseksi sekä pitänyt huolen siweellisistä welwollisuuksistaan, saa wiiden sentin korotuksen päiwässä, mikäli liikkeen tuottama woitto sen sallii.

- Henry Ford Motor Company 1903

[Rabs]

Rabs...

What about those who only have one phone, which doubles as work and private phone (for this purpose we are taxed for phone benefit).
Our work and private mingle.

And again, question is where would you draw the line with snooping into privacy of workers.

If you make case that emails, internet connections and phones should be watched because employees might leak information through them...

Why stop there? Knowledge the employee has does not disappear when they leave the office. And huge majority of dataleaks come in form of USB memorysticks. Which cannot be traced unless you start to monitor EVERYTHING employee does.

As for US president. I do not care what he does or does not. US president is irrelevant to me as far as my rights and privacy are concerned. Specially since this is not USA.

the monitoring part from employers has to do with two things- firstly sensitive data transfer, secondly, misuse of office property. what is information leak and how it is being carried out should determine how to stop them. obviously, the laws seem to have prevented companies doing any monitorings. that's why, apparently issue of amendment is under consideration. though I am not clear as to what and how information are leaked as there can be several ways, one thing i am clear and Tiwaz you seem to overlook is that when you use your mobile, when you watch youtube, browse facebook, chat with your friends, call your friends and relatives etc. during office hour, you are misusing the office time and office utilities. companies lose 1000's of man hours though some might argue it boosts the productivity. if you put yourself in employers shoes, only you will realize the situation.

perhaps, since the current law doesn't allow companies to do anything on this regard, this law is being considered to be repealed. at the same time, what is being proposed ain't 'big brother' atmosphere either! you cannot enjoy the same freedom as a freelancer when you work in an office.

(btw, use of US prez reference is just to show things work the other way also )