Chat online in (simple) Finnish?

[Osbi]

I'm convinced that I'm not going to learn Finnish adequately by just reading and doing grammar exercises

[Jukka Aho]

I'm convinced that I'm not going to learn Finnish adequately by just reading and doing grammar exercises... I thought it might be a good idea to, for example, chat with other Finnish learners (or Finns who are willing to deal with slow replies and mistakes) online or through Messenger or something. One idea is at chat.suomi24.fi there's an "international chat" room (which seems perpetually empty). So I don't know, any other suggestions or interests in this kind of idea?

I just posted a message about IRC – or Internet Relay Chat – in a thread on the Tea & Sympathy subform. I can’t say offhand if there are any decent, existing “international chat” rooms which would specifically cater for “international” people who are living in Finland or interested in the Finnish culture, topical discussion (either in Finnish or English), or the language, but I just created a new channel (chatroom) called #FinlandForum on IRCNet in case there’d be enough interested people to establish one. I am now going to hang around in there for some days, at least, to see if I’ll be getting any company.

The post in Tea & Sympathy, linked to the above, contains links to required software and tutorials, but if someone needs better and more detailed instructions for getting in there, I can provide some additional hand-holding as well... just ask! (But in that case, please be specific with your questions. What have you tried already? What didn’t work? Which OS and IRC client are you using? Which server are you trying to connect? What does it say? Which ISP are you using?)

[Jukka Aho]

Well, the channel just got its first visitor (hi, Krispi)... so we’re in business, I think. (Although that was a fairly short visit!)

I’ll be present and hanging on the channel 24/7, using the nickname ’znark’, but that does not mean I’d actually be actively monitoring it all the time, of course. I’m logging all the traffic on the channel, though, so if someone has tried to say something to me while I’ve been away from the keyboard or simply not looking, I can respond later – even hours later, or the next day, if need be.

But the key is to be patient. IRC, as a chat service, is one of those places where people – especially the channel regulars and operators who are seemingly “always there” – will often ‘idle’ for considerable lengths of time, without saying a thing or responding to anything, simply because they’re not really there in person, but have left their client connected and are logging all the discussions for commenting on them later. Sometimes those who are new to IRC will assume that all users on a given channel are “active” (i.e. sitting at their computer and looking at the screen right at that very moment), but that is usually not the case.

As hinted above, active/advanced IRC users will typically stay connected to the IRC server all the time, instead of only logging in at set times. This can be achieved by leaving your IRC client running on a computer that is always on. Many people use a shell account on a remote UNIX/Linux server and a text-based IRC client, such as irssi, for that purpose, but there are also specific programs called IRC bouncers which will proxy your IRC connections and keep them up even if you call it a day and close your graphical IRC client. (These are all advanced topics and techniques, and not needed for just connecting to IRC for a quick chat, but it is good to know about them as it explains how some people can “always be there” and why they are not always responding immediately if you try to say something to them.)

[Jukka Aho]

OK, we had a nice little chat on #FinlandForum last night, with as many as four persons online at the same time. The conversation was partly in Finnish, partly in English, and the participants (cheers to you all!) were planning to check back again on the next day (today) too, as their schedule permits... so I guess you could say it was a successful “proof of concept” kind of experiment.

I’m going to keep the channel running (i.e. sit in there and reserve the name) at least for the next couple of weeks. After that, I’d imagine we’ll be better equipped to say whether this is actually going to fly or not. It all depends on the general level of activity and the number of people squatting there as regulars. (Empty IRC channels are boring places and not worth keeping up for too long.)

Based on my earlier experience on IRC channels, I’d expect the most active daily period to be somewhere around 6 p.m. – 11 p.m. (Finnish time) – if we get regular users, that is – but since there are often people who are able to check in during office/school hours, too, and since some of the potential users reading this board would possibly hail from outside Finland and from a different timezone, it’s anyone’s guess.

[rob34]

If you are IRC savvy, try #triviabotti on QuakeNet.

http://staff.quakenet.org/servers.phtml


*Edit: Sorry, I see there's already been an IRC proposal

[enk]

I'll probably be floating around on the channel, too, but mostly inactively. And I recommend IRC
for learning, as it's a good place to learn to use a new language.

-enk

[Oombongo]

I will be there as "Professor" (which is my online gaming nick).

[Upphew]

And I recommend IRC for learning, as it's a good place to learn to use a new language.

Good place because no one cares about grammar or if you make a mistake?

[Osbi]

I'm enjoying our new IRC home. It's nice to have a live (written) conversation in Finnish, you have to think a bit faster than if writing an e-mail, and it's great practice to have to think in Finnish. And since everyone there is a FinlandForumer, it is understood that not everyone will understand every word or grammar form, so explanations have been common. Nice place to learn Finnish or meet other forumers. Hope more people will join us this evening... if anyone is having trouble finding it (as I did at first), and easy way to get there is through here: http://searchirc.com/search.php?F=parti ... nlandforum

[Jukka Aho]

And I recommend IRC for learning, as it's a good place to learn to use a new language.

Good place because no one cares about grammar or if you make a mistake? :P

Even if you’re virtually fluent in a foreign language, you’re going to make at least some occasional mistakes. Especially so in a live discussion where you don’t have too much time to think about your answers. I’m not sure how much use it would be to point out every single one of these mistakes separately. If something like that was being done automatically – as a rule of the channel, or something – it might just serve to discourage people even from trying.

I don’t think it’s essential that your own comments are perfect... as long as they’re understandable. More important thing is that you’re getting to see all those colloquial expressions and words and cases as they’re used in various everyday situations – which is what you don’t get by reading a book or a magazine, where the language is more stylized and stilted. On IRC, it’s all text, and all the lines people say will remain on the screen for as long as you want – in a chronological order – so it is somewhat easier to follow (and refer back to, or even save for later examination) than an actual live discussion, or subtitles on TV. Some of those usage patterns will slowly seep into your brain, and over the time you will start imitating them intuitively (i.e. your brain will start suggesting suitable familiar expressions and sentence structures for reacting to something said to you in a conversation, instead of just you having to consciously do a mechanical translation in your head or look everything up in a dictionary or a grammar/phrase book.)

But naturally, if someone keeps using some unidiomatic expression or repeatedly uses some random word in a context in which it doesn’t really fit or always seems to be using the wrong case with certain types of expressions, or anything in a similar vein that can be considered a systematic error or misunderstanding (or just something that is likely to lead to somewhat embarrassing situations or lots of confusion) – those kind of mistakes probably should be explicitly corrected.

Anyone who is concerned about getting it all perfect – down to the slightest detail, right from the beginning – could always specifically ask to be corrected in the strictest possible way, of course.

_____

Status report: As of this writing, there are six people on the #FinlandForum channel, so things are looking pretty good. But the more the merrier, so if anyone is interested in joining us, please do so now so we can get a bit more action. Here’s another simple tutorial on how to do that on Windows; just replace the IRC server address with one from this list (as a general rule, you should choose the server that is related to your ISP since other ISPs often don’t let their competitors’ customers on their servers.)

[raamv]

Do you still have this channel?
Once I get some time, I might get an IRC client ( Used a loooong time ago) and might join this channel.
So lets see who has the patience.. me to get an IRC client or the channel going away before I get it.

[kimster46]

official encoding for the channel is utf-8 . One irc client which supports utf-8 is here http://www.kvirc.net/?id=releases&platf ... .0&lang=en .

[Upphew]

Do you still have this channel?
Once I get some time, I might get an IRC client ( Used a loooong time ago) and might join this channel.
So lets see who has the patience.. me to get an IRC client or the channel going away before I get it.

Use some web based irc? For example: http://webchat.xs4all.nl/
And it's not about patience, I'm on one channel that has been around... 14-15 years and been active maybe 10 years ago, but it takes more effort to remove it from scripts than to "suffer" one dead channel...

[kimster46]

bump

irc channel is still up and running ... new members are welcome always

[Upphew]

irc channel is still up and running ... new members are welcome always

At least they learn how to idle