Looks like the fees are coming

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:13 pm

Vanhanen says that fees would raise the standards of education and f.es get more students from arab countries
http://yle.fi/uutiset/alueelliset_uutis ... 34047.html

**Sponsor:**

hackoff · Post by **hackoff** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:46 pm

English version :
http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2009/02/ ... 34697.html

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:38 pm

I am expecting the student unions to orgasm by tomorrow

Osbi · Post by **Osbi** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:25 pm

Would the potential fees still apply to Finnish residents who are not citizens? I've considered joining a degree program, and if fees will be involved, maybe I should hurry to apply before this possibly happens.

Karhunkoski · Post by **Karhunkoski** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:12 pm

Excellent news!

Vesper · Post by **Vesper** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:32 pm

How ironic, my father warned me the other day that even thought I applied for a free bachelor’s degree program, I might face tuition fees anyhow. Here in the US, the tons of students are dropping out of 4 year universities to attend the community colleges (2 years, cheap tuition). There has been a 20% increase or more in the number of students. But, the some community college had to reject students, because the state pays for 3/4 of the tuition at community colleges. With all the educational budget cuts, they are forced to turn away students. I guess the ‘financial crunch’ is hitting Finland too. I highly doubt they are thinking about applying fees for the sake of better education and attracting more students from all over the globe. For one, it cost like 1,000 to fly to Scandinavia to take a freakin’ entrance exam. Second of all, foreigners will only go there for a ‘free’ education since the language isn’t Latin base. To pay 6,000 euros in living cost plus tuition, and no chance of getting a job. I think there will be a dramatic decrease in foreign applications.

Rabs · Post by **Rabs** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:55 pm

Until Finland market itself widely and can compete with other English speaking countries in popularity, I don't think it can gain much financially from this, at least not at the present moment.
-Though tuition fees bring necessary finances to the universities, the volume of tuition-fee paying students will obviously decrease, on the other hand.

(the only thing i hate and love to see strict measures taken against is the fake students with fabricated documents.) English test requirement is a positive step forward.

boring · Post by **boring** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:01 am

main question is '' how much fees will be? '' i didn't come finland yet but i think if government makes fees high, foreign student won't choose finland? am i wrong?
i was planning to applicate next year but now i'm thinking about french, italian, spanish even english universities if i'll give money to university..finnish universities give excellent education but i guess life is expensive there and it is always cold

what makes finnish universities more ''inviting'' than the strasbourg, madrid, milan or manchester university? why should i choose finnish universities? i'm looking for your answers,opinions..

(maybe i annoyed some finns with my words but please don't misunderstand me. i'm just curious and try'n to learn something with my limited english)

Karhunkoski · Post by **Karhunkoski** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:59 am

Vesper wrote: Second of all, foreigners will only go there for a ‘free’ education since the language isn’t Latin base. To pay 6,000 euros in living cost plus tuition, and no chance of getting a job.

This is a good point. How many international students actually learn the language during their time in Finland, then stay and go on to make a contribution versus how many come, speak English, get some free education (and moan about like of subsistence allowances whilst they're at it

), then leave?

sammy · Post by **sammy** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:38 am

News like this are going to attract a lot of questions, and what's worse, launch a massive wave of hearsay-based rumours. What a pity the news are always so vague about it, and do not take into account the fact that prospective students do need to know where they stand.

Since the extent of the fees has not been decided yet, why don't they SAY it? That is vital INFORMATION.

Another thing that the news often fail to mention is that the universities and the polytechnics have separate legislation, so when they're talking about universities on the news it's pretty muddled whether they mean only university students, or polytechnics (UAS) students as well... and actually the last time the fees were discussed the proposal was that the fees would only concern some selected Master's programmes at the universities. Go figure.

To find something like this... (NB concerning universities)

Degree education will still be provided free of charge. The legislative reforms will, however, make it possible to charge tuition fees on a trial basis to students from outside EU/EEA countries who are taking part in separate master’s programmes, provided that the arrangements include a scholarship scheme.

Timetable and stages

* Circulation of the draft act for opinions. Deadline for opinions: 15 October 2008
* A series of seminars on the reform:
Helsinki, 17 September 2008
Oulu, 8 October 2008
Jyväskylä, 7 November 2008
* The bill will come before Parliament in spring 2009
* The aim is for the law to come into force on 1 August 2009
* Organisation in line with the new act in autumn 2009
* Start of activities on 1 January 2010

...you already need to know what you are looking for, and even then it is not necessarily easy. You have to literally dig that information up from the http://www.minedu.fi website, as if you were carefully excavating a fossilised Homo Bureaucraticus from the Olduvai.

I bet that every non-EU student is soon busy calling and emailing the friends of their friends in a humongous game of Chinese whispers - and in a few weeks' time we'll see inquiries from abroad asking whether it is true that in order to study in Finland you need to pay 20.000€ tuition fees per week, have your left arm and your right leg sawn off at the customs, and learn to whistle Porilaisten marssi and Maamme laulu simultaneously.

It's kind of understandable that the news fail to mention these details, since no actual decisions have been made yet, but still - they could actually say that aloud, for once. As if the news (especially those in English) were only followed by fellow politicians

Rant over.

---

Some recent stuff (although on a general level, not including any details about the proposed fees) about where the Finnish higher education will be heading in the years to come can be found here, in case anyone is interested...

http://www.kansainvalistymisstrategia.fi/en/frontpage

"the Strategy will be published in English in February-March"

Those who know Finnish can already read the strategy from here.

Pursuivant · Post by **Pursuivant** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:30 pm

sammy wrote: and in a few weeks' time we'll see inquiries from abroad asking whether it is true that in order to study in Finland you need to pay 20.000€ tuition fees per week, have your left arm and your right leg sawn off at the customs, and learn to whistle Porilaisten marssi and Maamme laulu simultaneously.

I would actually tell that is true - especially to people from certain countries

jazzori · Post by **jazzori** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:34 pm

Karhunkoski wrote:Excellent news!

Such a bitch.

Education should be free for everyone unless we desperately want stupidity's rate (or/and ignorance) to grow higher than already is. Everyone should have free access to information and education. Period.

interleukin · Post by **interleukin** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:15 pm

Education should be free for everyone unless we desperately want stupidity's rate (or/and ignorance) to grow higher than already is. Everyone should have free access to information and education. Period.

And why should the tax-paying residents of Finland pay for this nice little happy dream of yours? It is not like the students will stay in Finland and learn Finnish and integrate into society and get jobs and pay some taxes back (there are exceptions, but they are just lucky examples, not the rule). Go to your own country and demand free education!

sammy · Post by **sammy** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:37 pm

jazzori wrote:Everyone should have free access to information and education.

I totally agree, but whether it is equally true that "Everyone should have free access to education from Finland" is a point that can be debated. There are pros and cons.

sinikala · Post by **sinikala** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:05 pm

jazzori wrote:Education should be free for everyone unless we desperately want stupidity's rate (or/and ignorance) to grow higher than already is. Everyone should have free access to information and education. Period.

Indeed, but it's hardly reasonable to expect a country with less than 0.1% of the world's population to provide a free education for the other 99.9%, is it?

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