Help! Astevaihtelu - Adessive

[Lulu]

Hi,

Can anybody help me a bit? My teacher told me that "Astevaihtelu", e.g pp->p, kk->k, tt->t, this rule will apply for Adessive, Elative, Inessive, but not Illative.
Example: Minä olen Kaupassa. (pp->p), Minä menen Kauppaan. (PP, does not change.)
According to this rule, why "Lattialla on paperia. " (why tt does not change to t)????

Can anybody explain this for me?

Kiitos Paljon!

[Rabs]

don't go after those cases at the early stage..... if you heed me

on the second thought, if you are at early stage

[Tuonelan Joutsen]

I could be wrong, since I don't actually speak Finnish, but I think it's because the word ends in two vowels. Consonant gradation happens to consonants that start a short closed syllable (which is the underlying reason for the illative alone of the locative cases not having it), and the two vowels make the syllable not closed: /lat.ti.al.la/. On the other hand, in a noun like kauppa, the relevant syllable will be closed when the adessive ending is added: /kau.pal.la/ (vs. /kaup.paan/, where the syllable is closed but not short).

[Rob A.]

Hi,

Can anybody help me a bit? My teacher told me that "Astevaihtelu", e.g pp->p, kk->k, tt->t, this rule will apply for Adessive, Elative, Inessive, but not Illative.
Example: Minä olen Kaupassa. (pp->p), Minä menen Kauppaan. (PP, does not change.)
According to this rule, why "Lattialla on paperia. " (why tt does not change to t)????

Can anybody explain this for me?

Kiitos Paljon!

Here are some links that might help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_phonology

Excerpt:
Because one of the basic motivations for consonant gradation is syllable structure, other changes in behavior of consonant gradation can be traced to later sound changes which alter the syllable structure of words. One such example would be kuk.ka 'flower' → kuk.kaan 'flower+Illative'. If following the basic rule that a closed syllable causes the deletion of a syllable initial p , t, or k, then the conclusion would be ungrammatical: *kukaan. However, due to a historical development in which -h- was deleted in some unstressed medial positions, this particular instance does not result in consonant gradation (kuk.ka+han → kuk.kaan). The form kukkahan, without the deletion of the 'h', is still found in the southern Pohjanmaa dialect and occasionally in poetry.


http://www.uusikielemme.fi/illatiivi.html

This one shows the idea of the "h" re-appearing in certain words if the number of vowels is getting a bit unwieldy...

Excerpt:
"2.4. Words of one syllable ending in two vowels: add h + vowel + n
Nominative Illative Nominative Illative Nominative Illative
työ työhön tie tiehen muu muuhun
pää päähän maa maahan yö yöhön
kuu kuuhun suu suuhun sää säähän "


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illative

Excerpt:
"An example from Finnish would be "taloon" (into the house), formed from "talo" (a house). In Finnish, the case is formed by adding -h@n, where '@' represents the last vowel, and then removing the 'h' if a simple long vowel would result. For example, talo + h@n becomes talohon, where the 'h' elides and produces taloon with a simple long 'oo'; cf. maa + h@n becomes maahan, without the elision of 'h'. This unusually complex way of adding a suffix can be explained by its reconstructed origin: a voiced palatal fricative. (Modern Finnish has lost palatalization and other fricatives than 'h' or 's'.) In the dialect of Pohjanmaa, the 'h' is not removed; one does say talohon"


....so the short answer would seem to be that words with illative suffixes are following the rules of consonant gradation... it's just that you have to know there is an invisible letter there...

And I'm sure the native speakers just somehow intuitively "know" that...