Living on 3000 euro/mo?

[ndbowman]

Fellow forum users,

I was recently offered a job as a researcher at a major university in Helsinki, and the monthly pay is around 3000 euro. I'm wondering, what sort of quality of living could I expect to make on such a salary? I know that Helsinki has a reputation for being a pretty expensive place to live.

My apologizes if it is considered rude of me to post a salary question; I just have no idea what the cost of living is in Finland, and this information would be extremely helpful as I make plans to move. I won't have a car and I don't plan on bringing any real belongings with me, other than some clothes and maybe some enterainment equipment (TV, PlayStation 3, etc.).

Any help is appreciated!!! =)

[AlexInHelsinki]

I was recently offered a job as a researcher at a major university in Helsinki as a researcher

No offence to the OP (for real), but you cannot possibly have ANY IDEA how incredibly frustrating it is to hear that someone who forms a sentance like the one above is getting offered a job that pays 3000 euros a month.

Christ.

::controls breathing::

How about this? Helsinki is expensive, but how one spends money is a very individual thing. If you're clever, you could probably live really nicely. If you're ignorant and/or lazy, you probably won't do so well. Kind of like, oh...anywhere else in the world.

[dampa]

what a funny OP IMHO

How about living on Matti's pay every month or lets say, KELA support every month?

[interleukin]

3000 euros sounds like you are a well-paid postdoc or junior group leader. I can't tell you if you will find this to be high enough to suit your needs, but this would be considered a higher salary than eg. most postdocs could hope for.

[ndbowman]

I fixed the sentence...I should be careful with my quick 'cut-and-paste' work, eh?

In all seriousness, I'm completely lost in terms of the cost of living in Helsinki, other than hearing that is can be an expensive town. As I won't have a personal vehicle, I'll likely live as close to the Helsinki School of Economics as possible so I can walk, or take a tram or something similar. I've been trying to search around for rent and such, but the large majority of sites are in Finnish, and I don't speak any.

I'm a soon-to-be married young man, and I'll be bringing my fiance with me. Because she's not Finnish, she might have some difficulty finding a job so in all likelihood we'll have to both live off of my income.

So a family of two, no kids. I don't go out that much - I live in the laboratory, largely. I'll be taking some substantial debt with me (between credit cards and student loans, I'll likely be paying out at least 500 euro monthly, if not much more...gotta love the US way of life). I plan on renting a flat or something similar for two years.

I guess I'm curious about a few costs. Mainly, rent in Helsinki (of course I realize it will vary widely; I"m looking probably for a two-bedroom flat, possibly furnished). Some entertainment costs (i.e., dinner for two at a nice restaurant? tickets to a Hockey game? other entertainment costs), household essentials (say, if you had to estimate a weekly grocery bill for two Americans ex-patting in Helsinki, buying 'the essentials' for three square meals a day). I realize of course most of these are not fixed costs, but I'm just looking for some advice from some locals. I'd say I have pretty meager tastes, but I want to live as a professional, and not as a graduate student.

Mainly, I don't want to move across the ocean to Finland if my quality of life isn't going to be much better than it is now, as a graduate student borrowing heavily and living from paycheck to paycheck; I'm concerned because all I've read has suggested that Helsinki is an incredibly expensive place (I read it is considered one of the 10 Most Expensive Cities in the World).

[AlexInHelsinki]

You won't have to live like a grad student on EUR 3000 a month. That is a perfectly reasonable salary to comfortably support two adults in Helsinki.

I'd say most people here get by on less and live a pretty standard, non-grad student, middle class life. There's not a lot of class variation in Finland, and Finnish people tend to be quite frugal even though (or because) it's an expensive place to live.

[Rick1]

Lets count:

3000 bruto is about 2200 netto

costs:

500 loan
rest 1700 netto

For two persons this is not really much since I would estimate that a flat in downtown Helsinki will bring you down at least a 800 a month (plus all other costs for this flat for two)

so left about a 900 euro's for two is not much but many people are doing it because they normally both work.

BTW: Helsinki is expensive to live in if you compare it to western europe.

[jas_rho]

Lets count:

3000 bruto is about 2200 netto

costs:

500 loan
rest 1700 netto

For two persons this is not really much since I would estimate that a flat in downtown Helsinki will bring you down at least a 800 a month (plus all other costs for this flat for two)

so left about a 900 euro's for two is not much but many people are doing it because they normally both work.

BTW: Helsinki is expensive to live in if you compare it to western europe.

While reading the OP I was thinking the same along these lines too that Rick1 says here. After taxes here you'll get about 2200€ in your pocket.
I wouldn't recommend bringing your TV here, its not going to work. It's a pain if you bring US electronics here dealing with the adapters and whatnot. Even with the adapters things might not work the same as before.
Anyway I think you could probably survive here and it would be a good experience for you guys to come live here. It would be even better though if your wife found some work as well to bring in a little extra. This country loves to collect taxes!

[Pursuivant]

If you look along the tram lines you can get a place a bit more in the burbs, but the prices don't vary that immensely. Now *if* you can get the HSE to organize something for you that would be a good thing as they you wouldn't need to worry as much about sh*t as you do know that you have to cough up 3 months worth of rent beforehand in the free market? They usually have something sorted out and even its one of those student ghettoes you get time to figure out your bearings and not to make the mistake of getting something "close" beyond crosstown traffic or in some local skid row. You have a lot of other stuff to worry about.

Yes and bringing that fiance bit - you should be the just married type as Finland is a bit stickler with rules and as you are a non-EU means she needs to apply her residence permit separately from the USA so if you apply together there might be a chance of her actually getting here as if you later on get married a non-EU spouse still may not apply for a residence permit within the country. Applying from the USA though usually doesn't take longer than 2-3 months... usually. So just don't take on those fuzzy pink glasses and she comes here expecting to stay and then you wait 8 months for the paper to say no. Read the rules and don't "think" they mean what you want to hear. It can be and has been done, but people tend to "think" and then end up whining a lot. As for finding a job - depends on what her thing is - then again the layoffs right now it doesn't look good for anybody.

As for the prices - learn what the local stuff is in the supermarkets and cook at home. Helps if you learn metric - well no problem you will or then loose weight. Eating out is the luxury part even if they're dropping the tax to only 12... yeah and depending on where from the states you are and what you're expecting, flats here especially in the city are the size of American walk-in closets. But then again the public transport does work and its a small city so getting "out to the country" you can take a stroll up to central park and scare some moose.

Yeah, electronics... no. The PS3 might work if its chipped right but you know the story about electrical appliances and blue smoke?

[AlexInHelsinki]

yeah and depending on where from the states you are and what you're expecting, flats here especially in the city are the size of American walk-in closets.

Well, back in NYC if you can stand in the middle of a studio apartment and hold your arms out and NOT touch both walls, it's considered "spacious", and you usually have to slide into the kitchen sideways (all this for a meager USD 1300 or so a month).

So yes, I guess it's all relative.

[Upphew]

yeah and depending on where from the states you are and what you're expecting, flats here especially in the city are the size of American walk-in closets.

Well, back in NYC if you can stand in the middle of a studio apartment and hold your arms out and NOT touch both walls, it's considered "spacious", and you usually have to slide into the kitchen sideways (all this for a meager USD 1300 or so a month).

So yes, I guess it's all relative.

At least the apartments are cheaper in Manhattan than southern Helsinki...

From year ago: http://www.iltalehti.fi/ulkomaat/200801 ... 0_ul.shtml
http://translate.google.com

[Oombongo]

if you have other half who is not working then things are not in your favor. Men can live in a cave, use one jeans for months and survive on tuna paste with macaroni

[sinikala]

3000 euros sounds like you are a well-paid postdoc or junior group leader. I can't tell you if you will find this to be high enough to suit your needs, but this would be considered a higher salary than eg. most postdocs could hope for.

I disagree.

I started as a post-doc on 16,000 FIM / month (€2700) ... 9 years ago. Reasonably well paid Ph.D. students are on €2500+ nowadays. Even diploma workers are on over €2k.

In all seriousness, I'm completely lost in terms of the cost of living in Helsinki, other than hearing that is can be an expensive town. As I won't have a personal vehicle, I'll likely live as close to the Helsinki School of Economics as possible so I can walk, or take a tram or something similar. I've been trying to search around for rent and such, but the large majority of sites are in Finnish, and I don't speak any.

If you are currently living from paycheck-to paycheck, remember that when you rent an apartment here, they will usually want 1 sometimes 2 months rent as deposit, plus the first month up-front ... so don't be surprised if you need to hand a big chunk of your first few months pay checks out as a deposit.

I'm a soon-to-be married young man, and I'll be bringing my fiance with me. Because she's not Finnish, she might have some difficulty finding a job so in all likelihood we'll have to both live off of my income.

Unless you can prove cohabitation for the last 2 years, or you marry before coming here, or she is an EU citizen, then she might have some difficulty getting a residence permit. Hank already wrote this.

So a family of two, no kids. I don't go out that much - I live in the laboratory, largely. I'll be taking some substantial debt with me (between credit cards and student loans, I'll likely be paying out at least 500 euro monthly, if not much more...gotta love the US way of life). I plan on renting a flat or something similar for two years.

So minus the €500 loan repayments effectively it's the same as 2 people living on a €2300 / month salary (before tax).

I guess I'm curious about a few costs. Mainly, rent in Helsinki (of course I realize it will vary widely; I"m looking probably for a two-bedroom flat, possibly furnished).

Furnished flats ... think hen's teeth, think rocking-horse !"#¤%. Then consider that unless it's a furnished University apartment (I got one of those for the first year ), you will pay through the nose.

Some entertainment costs (i.e., dinner for two at a nice restaurant?

Upwards of €30 per head without booze. €7 starter, €15 main, €7 desert would not be unusual in a standard chain restaurant. Think €50+ per head in somewhere nice.

tickets to a Hockey game? other entertainment costs), household essentials (say, if you had to estimate a weekly grocery bill for two Americans ex-patting in Helsinki, buying 'the essentials' for three square meals a day). I realize of course most of these are not fixed costs, but I'm just looking for some advice from some locals. I'd say I have pretty meager tastes, but I want to live as a professional, and not as a graduate student.

We are not extravagant... ok sometimes we are we shop practically every day as we eat a lot of fresh veg (but I don't eat meat and my wife eats very little which surely keeps costs down) perhaps we spend €25-€30 per day for two of us. €150-€180 per week?

Mainly, I don't want to move across the ocean to Finland if my quality of life isn't going to be much better than it is now, as a graduate student borrowing heavily and living from paycheck to paycheck; I'm concerned because all I've read has suggested that Helsinki is an incredibly expensive place (I read it is considered one of the 10 Most Expensive Cities in the World).

It's not incredibly expensive when you compare it with Switzerland, Norway, but it certainly isn't cheap. Remember also that highly educated Finnish residents have, until the last couple of years had one of the lowest purchasing powers in the EU. Of course with the recent turmoil in world finances, Finland and Finns claim not to have been so badly hit, so perhaps that has lessened the blow here.

For further reading... this is from 2004, and I personally feel that the situation has improved since then, wages have risen taxes eased a little. http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/200 ... 05202f.htm

And this is slightly over the top ... but might interest you, hopefully it won't scare you off
http://www.finlandforthought.net/2007/0 ... n-finland/

[Pursuivant]

Well, back in NYC if you can stand in the middle of a studio apartment and hold your arms out and NOT touch both walls, it's considered "spacious", and you usually have to slide into the kitchen sideways (all this for a meager USD 1300 or so a month).

NYC doesn't count as USA peachfuzz, its like Finland. Public transport that works, tiny flats and "rude" locals. I loves it. Only place I'd move and feel right at home... a biker bar in alphabet city...

[Pursuivant]

Furnished flats ... think hen's teeth, think rocking-horse !

Fix up the flat with furniture isn't a problem... its all about networking my china.