How much do renovations cost in Finland?

[KenguruMies]

Hi all, first post here - wasn't sure if I should put it here or in the Housing forum..
My fiancée and I are looking to buy a flat in Espoo and I was wondering about renovation costs - we really need a study (SWMBO does freelance work from home, so she needs peace and quiet). ~60 sq m is fine for us, but most places are two rooms with huge OH/MH instead of sacrificing some space there for a second bedroom or a study. Some that we've looked at would be perfect if we could put in a couple of new walls (I think the term is väliseinä - wooden frame with gyproc on top) & a door. I know that in Australia such a modification would be pretty simple and not too expensive, but was hoping for some local information so we can figure out if this might be a viable option.

First a list of what we'd like to do:
- Get a new doorway & door added to an existing concrete wall (seems likely to be load bearing, but couldn't say for sure)
- Build a new väliseinä across part of an existing room - up to 3.5m - with a doorway in it (it won't have a door - just needs to be something to walk through)
- Divide the "new" room into two with another väliseinä - up to 2m long.
- We'd likely need to add some power points to the new rooms, too.

That brings me to the questions I have for those of you on here that might know:
- Can you do this sort of thing at all in a flat thats part of a building society (taloyhtiö?)?
- What sort of official hoops would we need to jump through - I'm assuming we'd need an engineer's evaluation of at least the new doorway through the concrete wall, but which modifications would we need to get approval from the council/building society etc etc
- I'm very handy with tools and am not afraid of doing the väliseinä and electrical work myself - how much work can you do withot needing properly qualified people to do it for you?
- Assuming the official hurdles could all be passed, how much would you estimate such modifications might cost? (obviously I don't expect a proper quote, but any ballpark figures are welcome)

Cheers for any help!

[Pursuivant]

Well, as for the official hurdles, firstly you need to get a building permit for modifications into loadbearing walls, which walls are owned by the building association (the house) and not by you (who owns the right to occupy the space between the walls) so its their wall and they can say no... and a building permit requires an engineer to make the calculations etc. So if you get past those obstacles then you can start contemplating the other costs... The materials won't be that much really for the total, labor and the supervisor and the caretakers inspection etc. cost as well as the certified electrician to make any wirings...

So as it is now a buyers market I'd rather continue looking for something ready. It isn't *impossible* but if you're going to stay in the flat for a relatively short time will it be worth it is the other question. I mean you need to ask who will want to buy a flat split up like that...

[KenguruMies]

So as it is now a buyers market I'd rather continue looking for something ready. It isn't *impossible* but if you're going to stay in the flat for a relatively short time will it be worth it is the other question. I mean you need to ask who will want to buy a flat split up like that...

Thats a fair question. The idea was to make one room into a nice study space, big enough to convert into a nursery if such an "event" were to come along, and the other would be a nice classy walk-in wardrobe. FWIW - the room I'm talking about here is the bedroom of a ~60sq m place, which is so freaking enormous that it currently has a big double bed, a bunk bed, a chest of drawers and two desks in it. Its very nearly as big as the lounge - this strikes me as a total waste of space. Even with the split in place the bedroom would still be bigger than 90% of the bedrooms we've seen. Of course an option is to make a corner of the bedroom the "study", but thats what we have now in our rental place and its a real pain if SWMBO needs to burn the midnight oil on a tough urgent contract and I'm snoring loudly behind her (and a real pain for me to get to sleep as I listen to her typing furiously). In the lounge is not an option - TV noise, etc. She really does need a dedicated study/office, and we have seen precious few in our size/price range that have a second bedroom or VH to convert.

[Rosamunda]

Well, if you approach the housing company they may know if anyone else in the block has made a similar modification. I'm guessing but... if someone else has already jumped the hoops before you (and landed safely the other side) in the same building then it should make it easier for you. Maybe you could even copy their specs???

When looking at properties (especially at the moment) don't take the advertised price as fixed. If you know the property has been on the market for several weeks (the agent might tell you) then consider making a lower offer (but be careful when making verbal offers). From what I have read, smaller properties (2 rooms) are still shifting but even so... you should never offer the asking price, always bargain down. Try looking at 3-room flats that are hanging around.

I mean.... what if you have twins?

[Pursuivant]

What I've seen is rather people complaining about the flats being divided into smaller rooms... well like mine is 65m2

And thats a "standard" flat layout from say 1960-1970's so I can't fathom how you can not "find" anything like that...

[KenguruMies]

When looking at properties (especially at the moment) don't take the advertised price as fixed. If you know the property has been on the market for several weeks (the agent might tell you) then consider making a lower offer (but be careful when making verbal offers). From what I have read, smaller properties (2 rooms) are still shifting but even so... you should never offer the asking price, always bargain down. Try looking at 3-room flats that are hanging around.

Yeah, we're not in a hurry so we're planning to be fairly aggressive with our offers. Hopefully pick up a good deal and have some cash left over for a lick of paint etc

What I've seen is rather people complaining about the flats being divided into smaller rooms... well like mine is 65m2

And thats a "standard" flat layout from say 1960-1970's so I can't fathom how you can not "find" anything like that...

Actually we haven't found any like that yet - or at least all like that have disappeared quite fast! We're kind of surprised about it too, but we're keeping our eye out for something that doesn't need any major modifications. The reason I ask about this is that there are a few flats available that are near perfect for us - 8 minutes for me to get to work, bus stop out the front to get to Helsinki, woods/lake/sea nearby, no impending plumbing renovations, great kitchen/bathroom/floors etc. The only thing non-ideal is the floorplan (they are all of almost identical floorplan).

[Pursuivant]

Ah, see the problem there is all the areas tend to be built up at the same time - and with similar floorplans... Now if you can make a separation and mods without building too much, like with a set of free-standing cabinets etc. then you need far less permits and such...

[Iseult]

SWMBO here.
If we were to forget about the new doorway and only build new väliseinät, what kind of permits would we need? I.e. what kinds of constructions can one make in a taloyhtiö flat without permission from said taloyhtiö?

EDIT: Before you ask, I did run a Google search, but only really found info about removing walls...

[Pursuivant]

As long as you don't touch the supporting concrete walls pretty much anything... they can be viewed as "removable structures"... though as per fire/safety etc rules theres certain guidelines as well..