Road Traffic Act

[chickensexer]

The same applies to you... If something is not done the way you are used to elsewhere it doesn't always mean that this something is wrong or nonsense.

And what makes you think I was implying that? it was you, not me, complaining about things here. While it turned out that it's not cuz rules are wrong here but just because you seem to be reluctant to acknowledge the fact that they are different here than where you come from, and refuse to accept them. You prove it once again when you started explaining about your mentality, give seat to elderly etc.. I mean, yes, it is your mentality (application of which to driving quite possibly works wherever you are from) against rules here (which do also work here). It's the clash of the 2 that gives you the problem. In which case just try reminding yourself that you while you are driving HERE you put your mentality on hold and go by local rules, which as you can see from other posters DO work.

So where did you get that thing from, appying it to me, did I start teacing you how to drive elsewhere? Did I come criticizing rules ou there (wherever it is)? No I didn't. So if you don't like universalism of applying "your mentality" being questioned - it's just your attitude problem, not me critisizing things elsewhere, as you are trying to make it look.

[debonaire]

"The traffic already on the road does not have to give way to parked vehicles. I don't know any country where that would be the case. Do you?" As you have observed, some drivers do give way to parked vehicles rejoining the traffic, but they don't have to.

well here you are wrong.....according to the rule ,the traffic already on the road has to give way to parked buses which stop for loading/unloading passengers when the speed limit 60km/h...
Personally i think its a pretty stupid and dangerous...i have seen buses moving from the stops without even caring to check if there is any vehicle on the side...what is the purpose of this rule....why cant the buses wait to join the traffic...

[Pursuivant]

basically its because they give preference to public transportation. also its about safety... a bit like the mandatory stop in USA with the school bus...

[debonaire]

basically its because they give preference to public transportation. also its about safety... a bit like the mandatory stop in USA with the school bus...

ok i understood the preference part....but isnt the bus supposed to let the car go before joining the traffic if the car is too close to it...i mean what is the best way to avoid any confusion...are you supposed to wait behind the bus till it joins the traffic...

[Pursuivant]

when it gives the blinker the fron wheels turn... so depending... as you're not supposed to be in a bus lane, so you are slowing down for turning anyways, and in built-up areas with one lane its usually 40/50 zone so you can stop... If you're halfway its 50/60 but the bus is big and you are small, so you loose the argument even if you're right.

[DMC]

well here you are wrong.....according to the rule ,the traffic already on the road has to give way to parked buses which stop for loading/unloading passengers when the speed limit 60km/h...

You are right of course, but in a different context. I was responding to umit's complaint of having to wait to pull out of a parking space. I wasn't considering the possibility that he might be driving a bus pulling out of a bus stop. I think he drives a normal car and would like other traffic to slow/stop to let him pull out from roadside parking spaces.

[Upphew]

when it gives the blinker the fron wheels turn... so depending... as you're not supposed to be in a bus lane, so you are slowing down for turning anyways, and in built-up areas with one lane its usually 40/50 zone so you can stop... If you're halfway its 50/60 but the bus is big and you are small, so you loose the argument even if you're right.

Ah the good ole Law of Gross Tonnage.

[Jukka Aho]

but isnt the bus supposed to let the car go before joining the traffic if the car is too close to it...i mean what is the best way to avoid any confusion...are you supposed to wait behind the bus till it joins the traffic...

Tieliikennelaki 22§:

———✄———

Tien antaminen pysäkiltä lähtevälle linja-autolle

Jos pysäkillä olevan linja-auton kuljettaja tiellä, jolla suurin sallittu nopeus on enintään 60 km/h, osoittaa suuntamerkillä aikovansa lähteä liikkeelle, pysäkkiä lähestyvän ajoneuvon kuljettajan on vähennettävä nopeutta ja tarvittaessa pysäytettävä, jotta linja-auto voi esteettä lähteä pysäkiltä.

Huolimatta 1 momentin säännöksestä linjaauton kuljettajan on noudatettava erityista varovaisuutta vaaran välttämiseksi ja annettava suuntamerkki siten kuin 35 §:ssä säädetään.

———✄———

The bus driver needs to a) signal his intention to join the traffic and b) “demonstrate particular cautiousness in order to avoid danger” (which in my book means he can’t just ram into the traffic without looking.)

But if he does that signaling part properly and in good time, the driver approaching from behind must decelerate their speed suitably to give him way or bring their vehicle to a complete stop if needed.

[Upphew]

But if he does that signaling part properly and in good time, the driver approaching from behind must decelerate their speed suitably to give him way or bring their vehicle to a complete stop if needed.

And if he doesn't signal properly... you better be able prove it. I consider bus stops as signs of minefield and bus stop with bus as one with live mines. Bus might cut/ram you, there might be people, esp. kids, running to/from stop... so I tend to approach with extreme caution and floor it when passing the bus (thus negating the cautious approach because of running kids, but see my previous post about tonnage..).

[MikeD]

but partly it's like you said - little traffic means not that many deaths and the cost from those deaths is not that great, so it's cheaper to let those few die than spend more on the roads to make things safer. in the uk there are a lot more people, so the costs are easier to justify.

Lives would be saved if people paid attention and obeyed the rules. Yes, it would be nice if the roads were better but it would be even nicer if irresponsible drivers were forced to take the bus.

but generally explaining to parents that having their kid run over and killed was cheaper than improving a junction is quite hard.

Now, it's not like that is an everyday occurrence... quite rare in fact.

[umit]

The same applies to you... If something is not done the way you are used to elsewhere it doesn't always mean that this something is wrong or nonsense.

And what makes you think I was implying that? it was you, not me, complaining about things here. While it turned out that it's not cuz rules are wrong here but just because you seem to be reluctant to acknowledge the fact that they are different here than where you come from, and refuse to accept them. You prove it once again when you started explaining about your mentality, give seat to elderly etc.. I mean, yes, it is your mentality (application of which to driving quite possibly works wherever you are from) against rules here (which do also work here). It's the clash of the 2 that gives you the problem. In which case just try reminding yourself that you while you are driving HERE you put your mentality on hold and go by local rules, which as you can see from other posters DO work.

So where did you get that thing from, applying it to me, did I start teaching you how to drive elsewhere? Did I come criticizing rules ou there (wherever it is)? No I didn't. So if you don't like universalism of applying "your mentality" being questioned - it's just your attitude problem, not me criticizing things elsewhere, as you are trying to make it look.

OK, I'm stepping back. Really and sincerely I'm convinced that letting someone to merge traffic from parking would cause more problems here. I won't do that...

Chickensexer, please don't take it as an insult, but your logic and way of thinking is limited with facts and rules. You don't have a perception of hypothetical arguments. I wonder what would you think if the law said "The drivers who want to merge traffic from parking has the priority as long as they signaled their intention properly":

Not to criticize your opinion but you seem to not look into the logic properly. Pedestrians are HIGHER priority at unregulated crossings. No logic needed, it's a clear rule. Thus no connection to the parking-pull-out case. "Right hand" rule is for EQUAL crossings. Pulling out of the parking place is UNEQUAL "crossing" - kind of like main road and side road. Thus no connection to the parking-pull-out case again.

Let's think about a hypothetical situation... You want to drive your car away which is parked alongside a street. But there is an unending queue of cars coming uninterrupted and moving steadily. The rule is you have to yield. So, you will wait there forever... Your logic and mentality cannot produce a solution to this.

The solution is COURTESY. One driver stops and let's you join the traffic. Nothing against rules from your side, cos you checked the mirror saw it is safe to go. And nothing wrong about the other part (He can flash right as if he will park to the place you are leaving, and then change his mind and proceed).

You can apply same hypothetical situation to right have the priority rule and turning left over traffic.

And on this forum I realized that most of the Finns can't stand being criticized by foreigners.

In my country some people wave their hands out of the window to indicate that they want to turn left, and it works well there. Many people stop ahead of the traffic lights so that they can't see when it turns green. That's why the drivers behind honk when the lights turns red&yellow, which is a 'friendly' reminder that means you can go now. If you criticize these I wouldn't say "while you are driving HERE you put your logic on hold and go by local customs"...

Cheers!

[chickensexer]

umit, you misinterpreted my logic once again. Believe me, I have plenty of courtesy, logical steps and scenarios for "what if..." and I could give you detailed explanations with cross references from outher countries what I would've done in case of that setady traffic, my applications of driving courtesy and what not... But I keep them on hold as long as mere following rules works and pull them out only when a situation is not fitting into the rules... Why invent holes in cheese? But your complains seemed to me as if you skip following local rules and customs and jump straight to your "elswhere" logics and customs just because you either didn't care to look into/practice local rules properly; or you did but didn't like and rejected it cuz it goes against your "elsewhere" habits.

By the way, I'm not a Finn, so I don't have that "no criticism to Finland from foreigners" thing. Frankly - I don't care about be it Finland or whatever else. But you and I drive there now. So it might make sense to invest your emotional energy into learning and practicing local rules (whatever locale it is) instead of pouting that things here (whatever is "here") aren't the way there are "there" (whatever is "there").

If you criticize these I wouldn't say "while you are driving HERE you put your logic on hold and go by local customs"...

And you would be right. Except for I will NOT do that, despite you clearly seem to pull me into your boat, by keeping to suggest in your posts that I would mirror your behavior. In which case - what would be the value of my posts if I didn't live by what I preach?

[EP]

One driver stops and let's you join the traffic.

And that "unending" queue bumps into the back of your car. No queue is unending.

In my country some people wave their hands out of the window to indicate that they want to turn left, and it works well there.

Maybe their car windows are not frozen shut.

[umit]

No queue is unending.

Another one without hypothetical perception here!!! (chickensexer, I exclude you)

Maybe their car windows are not frozen shut.

Exactly! That's why I don't do that here

[Karhunkoski]

What they should use is more of the "main road" signs but they're only sporadic at the beginning of a turnpike or such.

Good Heavens!

What in god's name have you been reading off ebay, Dick Turpin?